BF109 F 20mm nose cannon

[Jon]

Can someone confirm that the breach to the nose cannon on the 109F could be reached by the pilot in combat and he could actually clear jams?

If so, was this deliberate or by accident of design?

[George Hopp]

I would say that chance of the pilot being able to do anything to clear jams in his fuselage-mounted MG 151 was zero to none.

If you look at the weapon installation, you will see that that rear of the gun is ahead of the control stick. So, to gain access to the weapon, the pilot would need to release his seat belt, bend way down under the instrument panel, remove the protective cover (if it was fitted -- and where to put that). Then somehow reach forward to clear any jam. And, if you have seen a 109 cockpit, it is very small, so the pilot would be trying to do this without touching the control stick or the rudder pedals, or any other flight controls. Meanwhile, since his head is under the instrument panel, who is flying the aircraft?

After all that babbling, I suddenly remembered that the Mauser gun could only be loaded and cocked electrically. So, trying to manipulate it manually to slide back the bolt to free a cartridge would not work.

[Jon]

Cheers George,

I had actualy come to the same conclusion but did read recently that the Nose cannon could be reached in combat so wanted to pose the question just incase i had missed something.

Have a great Christmas

Jon

[George Hopp]

And a very Merry Christmas to you too, Jon. As well, a Happy and Healthy and Prosperous 2008.

[Ruy Horta]

Maybe someone is mixing up Bf 109s and 110s?

Also, although it is the first time I read about something like this, it might be the MG FF mount in the earliest F-models. Just a thought, did not dig into sources to verify.

[Jon]

Its actually taken from Rolf Pingel's RAF intelligence report after he was downed in a BF109F over England.
He stated he liked the single nose 2cm weapon, though it fired high, and the report then claims the weapon can be cleared of jams in the cockpit by the pilot whilst in combat?

Possibly the Intelligence officer assumed the 151 could be cleared as the breach enters the cockpit area. Remembering the very much "hands on" approach with WW1 aircraft offensive weapons.

Regards

Jon

[Pilot]

Placing of the cannon in the central position is not made in effort to give access to the pilot. But this was made in the WW1 when SPAD XII was created. Posibly the first single seat fighter to have central armament, with 37 mm cannon through engine shaft and one machine gun atop of the engine cowling. reload of the cannon was done manualy. it experienced some problems in engine vibration and smoke release after triggering. But some aces like Guinemer, Fonk or Nuengesser managed to fly succefuly on the type. Only 300 were build.

Situation with Bf109 is different. In basic design there is idea to make wing free and with no load inside, This is done with the goal of manuevring. Due to the lenght of the same weapon the rear part was placed inside of the pilot cockpit. It is not possible to do any amintenance in flight as well this is very complex job and intensity of combat could not give breath to any to make some repair in flight and then back in combat.

In the sphere of the construction all armament present system with variable weight. When the armament is fired there is difference in the weight and this could be very critical if this was not calculated precisely. In this way all of the armaments like the cannons or machine guns in the fighters are to calculated to have ammunition close to the centrla of gravity and make almost no disturb when the weight are going to be changed. Also the airplane is calculated with the erserve of stability and this could give some possible to fly even is it become less stable in some envelope.

So the position of the cannon is the result of the very precise engeenering calculation in the goal to get the best from the available airframe.

[LWulf]

Originally Posted by Jon

Its actually taken from Rolf Pingel's RAF intelligence report after he was downed in a BF109F over England.
He stated he liked the single nose 2cm weapon, though it fired high, and the report then claims the weapon can be cleared of jams in the cockpit by the pilot whilst in combat?

Possibly the Intelligence officer assumed the 151 could be cleared as the breach enters the cockpit area. Remembering the very much "hands on" approach with WW1 aircraft offensive weapons.

Regards

Jon

Hmm, from what little I know:

"Most German aircraft had electrically operated (fired) armament, which made selection of different weapons configurations and counting of ammunition easy. Some of the planes also had a mechanism to pneumatically reload guns when the trigger was released if the last shell was not fired. This made it possible to unjam the guns just by pressing the trigger repeatedly."

(The quote is from: Bf 109 myths )

Of course this did not always unjam the weapon, but at least it gave the pilot a chance.

[Jukka Juutinen]

That claim from the Finnish site is essentially correct, except for slightly misleading wording for you didn´t press the trigger repeatedly in the Bf 109, you kept it depressed. There was also a charging control (IIRC operated by a push button) which could be used to effect the same, except firing the gun.

And they should emphasize that electrical firing and electrically primed ammo is not the same thing. That has obviously escaped some site writers.

[Jon]

It looks like the RAF intelligence report was not that intelligent!