24 - 11 - 1942 Italian Transport Losses.

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo all,

Having seen the very interesting and informative threads on Italian transport and bomber losses in November 1942 I wish to begin a new one.

On 24 November 1942 three P-38 pilots of the USAAF 49th Fighter Squadron chanced upon a formation of 9 'SM' transports between Gabes and Sfax in Tunisia. All were claimed shot down by Lts. Virgil W. Lusk (5) and James E. Butler (4). Their victims have also been described as Ju 52s.

Can anyone please tell us anything more about this engagement. Number of transports, unit, losses, pilots, etc.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

[Gianandrea Bussi]

Here I am.

From the same sources mentioned in the previous messages.
On 24 november seven S.82 were attacked by three twin engined a/c at about 40 km from Sfax during a flight from Castelvetrano to Tripoli.
First pilots were Cap. Guidorzi, M.llo Marco, S.Ten. Boldreghini, M.llo Nicoli, Ten. Escher, Ten. Baistrocchi, M.llo De Rubeis).
All the aircraft were damaged and pilots managed to crash-land all of them near Sfax with three dead and five wounded. All aircraft were damaged beyond repair.
Aircraft were: MM 60592-599-734 of the 48a and 601a Sq. (45° Stormo);
MM 60801-804-493 of the 617a and 618a Sq. (48° Stormo); MM 60290 (code: SA-2) of the Sezione Autonoma.
Cap. Guidorzi (wounded) and M.llo Torrini (member of the crew of Ten. Escher) departed towards Italy as passengers of a Caproni but the aircraft never arrived to Sicily.

Hope that this may help you

Gianandrea

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo Gianandrea,

Thank you for the very helpful information on the S.82 losses. I can add a few more details on that engagement that might be of interest.

The third 49th FS P-38 pilot was 1/Lt. Robert N. Carlton and he was the flight leader initially. He wrote of his experience that day in the March 2004 issue of LIGHTNING STRIKES, the magazine of the P-38 National Association. It appears that the three pilots were sent on an armed reconnaissance to the Axis-held airfields around Gabes and Sfax. Carlton shot up a Ju 52 - and a tank ! - on the ground at Gabes, claiming the transport destroyed. He received a bullet to an engine forcing him to shut it down. Later they came upon the formation of 'nine' transports, which Lusk and Butler attacked. Carlton could not engage due to his engine problems.

It was a follow-up item in the most recent issue of LIGHTNING STRIKES that caught my attention and prompted me to post the above appeal for information. Apparently one of the Italian pilots, Marco Amilcare, wrote to Robert Carlton. Presumably he was one of the co-pilots ? He gave some more details including that the engagement took place at one o'clock some 15 miles south of Sfax and that the Italian formation was flying at 60 (sixty !) feet about one mile from the coastline. Amilcare also confirms there were seven transports and they were carrying troops. Furthermore that he was wounded in the attack and four of his 'crew' (passengers ?) were killed.

Carlton wrote back to Amilcare but apparently did not receive a reply.

Many thanks again Gianandrea.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

P.S. Can anyone please identify or confirm the loss of the Ju 52 at Gabes that day ?

[veltro]

Originally Posted by Martin Gleeson

Apparently one of the Italian pilots, Marco Amilcare, wrote to Robert Carlton. Presumably he was one of the co-pilots ?

If I may, let me add that actually in this case Amilcare is the name and Marco the surname (easy to mix-up, as Marco is much more known as a name). He was in fact one of the pilots originally listed by Gianandrea...

Originally Posted by Gianandrea Bussi

First pilots were Cap. Guidorzi, M.llo Marco, S.Ten. Boldreghini, M.llo Nicoli, Ten. Escher, Ten. Baistrocchi, M.llo De Rubeis).

Hope this helps.

[Gianandrea Bussi]

Yes, Ferdinando is right: the full name, contained in the index of the S.A.S. book, is M.llo Amilcare MARCO.

In the notes of the same source the list of the casualties is included:

killed:
1°Av. Mot. Stelio Baldan
1° Av. RT Jacubella
1° Av. Arm. Luigi Ramezzana

wounded:
Cap. Pil. Sergio Guidorzi,
Ten. Pil. Bergonzoli
Ten. Pil Mario Baistrocchi
M.llo Pil. Amilcare Marco
Av. Sc. Brandetti

Regards

Gianandrea

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo Ferdinando and Gianandrea,

Thank you both for the correction and further help. One last question. Does the source mentioned confirm they were carrying troops at the time and if so did these suffer casualties also ?

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

[Gianandrea Bussi]

The two sources don't mention the presence of troops/passengers on board and eventual casualties amongst them but this does't mean that the aircraft were flying empty.

Regards

Gianandrea

[Martin Gleeson]

Gianandrea,

Thanks once more for all your assistance. I have long been interested in the Tunisian campaign. The Italian air transport force seems to have suffered terrible losses at this time but this sacrifice is unfortunately not that well known.

Regards,

Martin.

[Gianandrea Bussi]

According to the figures contained in the book written in 1957 by general Giuseppe Santoro about Italian AF in WWII, in the period november 1942-may 1943 82 aircraft and 220 crewmembers were lost by this AF in flights between Italy and Tunisia. 71.892 passengers and 5126 tons were carried during 5318 fligths.

Regards

Gianandrea

[119^Legione]

cari amici,
nello scontro del 24.11.42 a me risulta essere caduto anche l'aviere scelto marconista Giuseppe Proia, che per tale combattimento è stato decorato di Medaglia di Bronzo al V.M.
tale nominativo però non risulta in questa discussione.
conosco il fratello, vivente, che mi ha fatto vedere il diploma con la motivazione e la data del combattimento aereo e la medaglia al v.m., da lui custodita a casa.
avete qualche notizia in più???
grazie a voi tutti!!!
119^Legione