Probable shooting down of a 2 engine German fighter on April 16/43 15 miles W. of Mannheim at 01:00

[acwallace]

I am trying to get information on a combat that occurred April 16, 1943 at 01:00, 15 miles west of Mannheim between a Stirling of 214 Squadron and an otherwise unidentified 2 engine German fighter.
The combat report states the Stirling gunners fired over 1000 rounds at the fighter who disappeared into the darkness while they were firing, 20 seconds later there was an orange flash where the fighter was last seen and then 30 seconds after that there was an explosion and fire on the ground seen by the rear gunner. It was recorded as a probable kill.
Is there any information that would tell me anything about the German fighter in terms of type, crew or any records of the incident in German files?
I would very much appreciate any information.
Thanks
AC Wallace

[John Beaman]

Are you sure about the date? Records indicate that no Bf 110s were lost on the 16th. But, 8 were lost on the 17th. What date is the 0100 you list?

Four were 100% either WIA or KIA, which might fit the description, but none of the locations mentions Mannheim. However, Germans records are usually more specific as to near by small villages as opposed to "15 miles west of Mannheim".

[acwallace]

Hi John and thank you for the reply.
You are right , the incident did happen on April 17, not the 16th. The villages and towns I can see in the area on Google Earth are:
Bad Durkheim, Kallstadt, Wachenheim, Forst an der Weinstraße, Neustadt an der Weinstraße, Deidesheim. Does this match any of the losses recorded for the 17th?
Thanks for your help!
Regards
AC Wallace

[John Beaman]

Locations are:

North of Neuenhaus, Hochspeyer/Berzweiler, bei Joinville, Juvincourt, Fl.Pl. Mainz-Finthen, 3km north of Bissel, near Ahlhorn, and St. Menehould

[robert_schulte]

Hello acwallace, John,
Hochspeyer would fit for this loss perfectly.
I have the following data:
Bf 110 F-4, Werk.Nr. 4755, 10./NJG 4, Hochspeyer, Feindflug
Crew: Oblt. Gerd Friedrich, Ofw. Wilhelm Giesen, both wounded, bailed out after being hit by enemy fire.
Hochspeyer is 40 km west of Mannheim, so I guess this should be the right place.
All other given places are too far away from Mannheim.
Best wishes
Robert

[acwallace]

Hi John
This would definately be the Hochspeyer/Berzweiler, it is about 10 miles from where the combat began. Are there any other details on this loss available?
Thank you so much for your help.
Dave Wallace

[acwallace]

Robert - you came up with the same answer I did while I was replying - Thanks for the information!
Dave Wallace

[acwallace]

One thing I find interesting on this loss is that the bf 110 was seen by the rear gunner because it had it's wing tip red & green navigation lights on which I assume would have been a mistake, making them easily seen.
My father was the Navigator on the Stirling and their crew was only involved in two combats, the other one was on April 4/43 near Westerhaven Holland and that combat also against another two engine fighter that also had it's navigation lights on. They had no evidence to believe they hit that aircraft when they fired. Was this a common mistake among German fighter crews, leaving navigation lights on while attacking?
Thank you
Dave Wallace

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by acwallace

Hi John
This would definately be the Hochspeyer/Berzweiler, it is about 10 miles from where the combat began. Are there any other details on this loss available?
Thank you so much for your help.
Dave Wallace

Well, if this is the one, looks like your father's a/c got an eventual Knight's Cross winner. Loss as follows:

Bf 110F-4, 4755, FRIEDRICH. Oblt. Gerhard (F)/Giesen, Ofw. Wilhelm (Bf), 30 abschusse (in Mar '45), 10./NJG 4, 17-Apr-43, Stkp., WIA due to enemy fire. Both FSA. Crashed., Nachtjagd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #9)-Vol. 16; Höhler, Deutsche Nachtjagd, Personalverluste, p.110, Hochspeyer/Berzweiler

Obermaier says he was killed the night of 16/17 Mar '45 in combat with a Lancaster. He was awarded the KC the day before he was killed.

[acwallace]

Hi John
Thanks to the information I got on the forum I found this: http://www.luftwaffe.cz/friedrich.html.
He managed to recover and shot down 25 planes after being shot down that night.
How high up the chain is the Knight's Cross?
Thanks
Dave