Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 1st June 2005, 22:34
Roger Gaemperle's Avatar
Roger Gaemperle Roger Gaemperle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 615
Roger Gaemperle
Fw 190 D-9 or D-11 photo on ebay!

Hello,

The aircraft looks like it could be a Fw 190 D-11. But even if it is a D-9, it is a rare photo. Does anybody know more about it?

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...ayphotohosting

Roger Gaemperle

(PS: I don't know any of the sellers of which I posted the links to their ebay auctions)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2nd June 2005, 14:44
Micke D Micke D is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 74
Micke D
Re: Fw 190 D-9 or D-11 photo on ebay!

Nice photo Roger!



My guess is that this, most likely, is two Fw 190 D-11s from Jagdfliegerschule des General der Jagdflieger (spelling?).

"Doras of the Galland Circus" by Jerry Crandall has a photo that looks like it is from the same series, but showing the Dora to the right, (and maybe the He 111 in the background IIRC).



/Micke D
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2nd June 2005, 17:49
Pitbiker Pitbiker is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Frankfurt/ Main Germany
Posts: 4
Pitbiker is on a distinguished road
Re: Fw 190 D-9 or D-11 photo on ebay!

Hi all,

today i find this.
A new book is on the way.

THE FOCKE-WULF FW 190 DORA D-9, D-11, D-13
Author: Crandall, Jerry


http://www.helion.co.uk/product.php?...6&xSec=1601106
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2nd June 2005, 18:31
Kuba Plewka's Avatar
Kuba Plewka Kuba Plewka is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 77
Kuba Plewka
Re: Fw 190 D-9 or D-11 photo on ebay!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micke D
My guess is that this, most likely, is two Fw 190 D-11s from Jagdfliegerschule des General der Jagdflieger (spelling?).

"Doras of the Galland Circus" by Jerry Crandall has a photo that looks like it is from the same series, but showing the Dora to the right
Micke, you are right I think. I have also compared those two photos. This Dora may be D-11 <<+ W.Nr. 220009
Please note the wooden joist aroud the undercarriage, note the fuselage insert camo and the shape and location of spinner spiral motif.
The canopy is also missing.
Looks very similar to me.

regards
Kuba Plewka
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2nd June 2005, 20:43
O.Menu's Avatar
O.Menu O.Menu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: France
Posts: 296
O.Menu
Re: Fw 190 D-9 or D-11 photo on ebay!

Note: there is only one Dora exposed two times, not two different Dora !

Because since the photographer dont rewind enought the film on the right you have a second shot from the same airplane but on a slightly more frontal view, overexposed over the first image. This is why you can see for example the He 111 wing going through the right Dora and so on...

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2nd June 2005, 21:23
Micke D Micke D is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 74
Micke D
Re: Fw 190 D-9 or D-11 photo on ebay!

O. Menu: you are right of course!



I thought it looked strange with the spinner "in" the wing of the Heinkel, but I'm at work and have not had any time to examine the photo really close yet.



Kuba: I actually don’t think this is “White <<+ “, W.Nr. 220009.

If you take a close look at the D-11 photo in “Doras of the Galland Circus”, it looks like this one was marked “White <<-+”.

The white horizontal bar should have been visible on the photos that exist of W.Nr. 220009, but I can not find it on any of the photos.

I don’t think that the camo looks exactly the same on the aft fuselage either.



I asked Jerry Crandall, a year or two ago, what he thought about this, but he believed that this one is “White <<+ “, W.Nr. 220009.



I’m going to take a close look at these photos when I get home.



/Micke D
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2nd June 2005, 23:29
Kuba Plewka's Avatar
Kuba Plewka Kuba Plewka is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 77
Kuba Plewka
Re: Fw 190 D-9 or D-11 photo on ebay!

Micke, it is very interesting point. I have compared both photos (from J.Crandall's Doras and P.Rodeike's 190 Jagdlugzeug).
I have cut the middle fusselage section, zoomed and compared chevrons.
Besides that horizontal bar, both chevrons seems to be almost identical or very, very similar in size and placement.
The photo quality of that D-11 from Mr.Crandall "Doras" is lower than that from "Jagflugzeug" and it's really hard to say something more, for example if it has it's fuselage insert joint primed with dark colour as it is visible on 220009.
What is preety visible is that forest around.
That 220009 dora from one photo stands beetwen big trees and bush, that from "DotGC" stands in something like more open field. The same with our EBay Dora.
I think, the photo from EBay and "Doras" shows the same plane but I'm not sure now if it really is 220009.
I'm preety confused now

Thanks for changing my point of view!
Regards

Kuba
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 3rd June 2005, 16:57
Micke D Micke D is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 74
Micke D
Re: Fw 190 D-9 or D-11 photo on ebay!

First I have to correct myself: The unit was called Verbandsführerschule des General der Jagdflieger and was stationed at Bad Wörishofen between February and April 1945.


I guess the reason for the similar chevrons and their placement is that they most likely were painted at the same time and maybe using the same template.
I can’t see a white spinner tip on the photo of 220009 in Rodeikes book, but the bright light is reflecting so it may not be possible to see even if it had been white.
One of the photos in Rodeikes book shows that 220009 had no wheels, but they could have been removed anytime before this photo was taken.
The other photo shows that 220009 stand with the nose facing the trees, but it could of course have been moved from the field to this position before the wheels were removed.

So yes Kuba, this is confusing, but fun, for me too!


But my belief is still that the eBay photo and “the Crandall photo” is showing <<-+ with a still unknown W.Nr. and not <<+ W.Nr. 220009.


It’s fascinating that of maybe 20 D-11s built, 4 or 5 has been photographed.

I can also see now that the spinner and prop of what I thought was a second Dora in “the Crandall photo” is the spinner and prop of the Heinkel.


I saw on Eagle Editions website that Jerry Crandallis working on a new book called “The Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Dora, D-9, D-11, D-13” that may explain some of our questions.

This book and the one from Japo by Eric Larger are definitely on my “must have” list.

/Micke D
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 3rd June 2005, 19:08
O.Menu's Avatar
O.Menu O.Menu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: France
Posts: 296
O.Menu
Re: Fw 190 D-9 or D-11 photo on ebay!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micke D

But my belief is still that the eBay photo and “the Crandall photo” is showing <<-+ with a still unknown W.Nr. and not <<+ W.Nr. 220009.


/Micke D
I m 100% with you on this Micke!
They are two differents airplanes no doubt about!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 3rd June 2005, 23:02
Jerry Crandall Jerry Crandall is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hamilton Montana
Posts: 44
Jerry Crandall
Re: Fw 190 D-9 or D-11 photo on ebay!

Hi Guys;

The photo offered on eBay is obviously a double exposure. It is an Fw 190 D-11 "White << -" and the W. Nr. is not 220009. It is a few digits away from this number. The D-11 "White <<" W. Nr. 220009 and is camouflaged much like the one offered on eBay but in fact they are two separate a/c. I have recently come across several new photos of "White <<-", a very interesting D-11, which I will be publishing in my new Dora book. I have also interviewed the pilot who flew this a/c and have spoken with the person who took this series of photos at Bad Wörishofen.

The He 111 in the photo was part of KG 55.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Jerry Crandall
__________________
Jerry Crandall
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NEW BOOK - Fw 190 D Camouflage & Markings - Pt. 1 David E. Brown Focke-Wulf Fw 190D Camouflage & Markings 71 31st March 2014 00:16
Fw 190 with WG21 rocket under fuselage on ebay Roger Gaemperle Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 6 24th December 2006 22:49
Hungarian Fw 190 ? (E-Bay photo) Kari Lumppio Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 26th April 2005 22:40
Low altitude tests: P-47 vs. Fw 190 Six Nifty .50s Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 20th April 2005 01:13
The remarkable William Tex Ash, 24 March '42 Brendan Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 4th February 2005 19:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2007, 12oclockhigh.net