Attack on German train Holland september 1st 1944

[Richard1976]

On the morning of September 1st 1944 (around 9.00hrs a.m. CET) a few trains were attacked in the vicintiy of Roermond, The Netherlands. One of those trains is of special interest to me. It's a German train fully loaded with ammunition heading from Mönchen Gladbach (Germany) to Roermond which was attacked by (probable) P-38 fighters. As one eyewitness told me about a half year ago that 2-tailed planes were involved in the attack. An characteristic shape which he never forgot. Also a local historian told me P-38's, but unfortunally he doesn't have more information. The train stopped just a few miles to the east of Roermond and was completly destroyed. I've checked the police file and Air Raids Protection (I hope this is the correct translation) file for september 1st '44 and both don't mention that 1 or more planes were shot down or crash landed in the area during the attack. So likely no planes were lossed. It probably was/is a little bit easier to find some information when a plane was lost during this attack. Somewhere there must be some information about this, but I'm a newbie in the air war and I don't know where to look. Do you know where I could find more information about this attack/raid and the fighters (squadron) involved?

Thank you. All help is appreciated.

Richard

[Hans Nauta]

Hello Richard,

Unless there's someone who has this event on file by pure coincidence, the other way is to have a look in the 8th Air Force Narratives. These are held in the AIR40 class in The National Archives in London.

These narratives may reveil the involved unit, but likely not more than tat. The next step is to check the (involved) Group Records in the NARA in Washington to match this event with a specific P-38 and pilot.

For future contact and investigation: 'Luchtbeschermingsdienst' is translated as Air Raid Precautions Department as far as I know.

Good luck!
Hans Nauta

[Richard1976]

Thank you Hans and Leendert for your reply. I will contact the National Archives and hopefully they have some information for me.

Additional information which can help me is still welcome.

[Bruce Dennis]

I have been looking into the attack on the train carrying Fi 103s on September 1 1944 and discussing it on RAFCommands forum. Here is what I have just posted there:

I found the confirmation needed: it was American 8th AF escorts released from their mission when the bombers were scrubbed on September 1 1944. The document doesn't name individual squadrons but there were 47 P-38s and 496 P-51s on escort duty that day. The summary of activity says that 'one group strafed and damaged one locomotive' and ground witnesses reports would make that the P-38s.

Claims for fighters on that day, including those released from escort duties, include:
' Ammo or Buzz Bomb freight cars - 44 destroyed, 15 damaged '

Interestingly, the document quoted was dated 2 September so the description of 'Buzz Bomb freight cars' was included less than 24 hours after the action: sounds like somebody had a good source of information!

Hope this helps tie up a loose end or two.

Bruce

[Leendert]

It appears that the 479th FG (the last remaining P-38 unit of the 8th AF at that time I believe) only took off at around 9.40 a.m. on 1 Sept 1944 from its base in England.
Operations were well to the south of Roermond (mainly S. Belgium and N. and E. France)

If the attack on the train was at 9 a.m. to begin with, then 479th FG is not a candidate (anymore)...

More confusion than answers, I'm afraid.

Regards,

Leendert

[Leendert]

Richard,

By September 1944 most 8th AF Fighter Groups with P-38s had converted to P-51s, with the possible exception of 479th FG.

The Roermond case more likely involves one of the three 9th AF Fighter Groups that had the P-38: 367th, 370th or 474th.

Unfortunately an USAAF chronology like this one on
http://www.usaaf.net/chron/44/sep44.htm does not really point to attacks in Dutch Limburg on 1 September 1944, so a Group history should provide a conclusive answer.

Regards,

Leendert

[ClinA-78]

The 370th FG made 03 armed recce that day, the first beginning at 09.04 AM and located between Lille-Brussels.

ClinA-78

[Bruce Dennis]

Possibly the difference in time is (as so often) from comparing Allied and Luftwaffe sources?
So all will know, my source for the Allied mention of the attack was the daily intelligence summaries distributed the following day.

Bruce

[KM1957]

Here is what I have found for 9th Air Force P-38 operations on this date. Not sure if anything fits what you are looking for. 367th FG dive-bombed barges and ten or more trucks with unobserved results. The 370th FG operated in the Lille-Brussels and Beaumont areas claiming a total of 6-3 locomotives (destroyed-damaged), 0-26 railcars, 119-38 vehicles, 3-3 tanks, 11-14 horse-drawn vehicles, and 0-3 barges. The 474th FG operated in the Namur-Brussels area claiming 70-28 trucks, 3-0 half-tracks, 1-0 troop carrier, 5-0 staff cars, 1-5 tanks, 1-0 jeep, and 0-1 armored vehicle.

Kent