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  #1  
Old 21st June 2005, 08:47
anderbe anderbe is offline
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anderbe
Early Bf109 and Ju88

Take a look at this link http://www.moskittech.ru/eng/myze.htm
Pictures from Russian archives.

Regards Anders
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  #2  
Old 21st June 2005, 11:23
Primoz Primoz is offline
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Re: Early Bf109 and Ju88

The Bf 109 B-1 was captured in Spain.

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Primoz
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  #3  
Old 21st June 2005, 12:15
RalphZimmer RalphZimmer is offline
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Re: Early Bf109 and Ju88

Hi all,
this machine was coded 6-15 and force-landed intact on 11. November 1937.

What puzzles me, is the position of the oil cooler in photo #18: It seems to be in a different position compared with other machines with a Jumo-engine. In this picture the position seems to be much closer to the wing root than in the “normal” position (the oil cooler normally lies closely behind the wheel well, thus beeing much further outboard)



IIRC this repositioning was mentioned in one of the polish “monografie”(?) magazines by R. Michulec (sorry if spelled wrongly!). It was stated, that the position was changed after the first few machines. Neither the book by Radinger/Schick (versions A-E) nor one of the works from Mr. Prien seems to mention this.

Could it be that this repositioning was a difference between the version “A” and “B”?

Has anybody further information (explanation and/or documentation) concerning this repositioning?

Thanks in advance

Ralph
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  #4  
Old 21st June 2005, 13:32
Primoz Primoz is offline
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Re: Early Bf109 and Ju88

The Ju 88 A-1 is also very interesting. It carries a civilian registration and what looks like an export camouflage pattern (probably 3 topside colors). I guess it was delivered in the context of the Stalin-Hitler Pact.

Who knows more? What did the topside camouflage pattern look like?
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  #5  
Old 22nd June 2005, 00:32
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Early Bf109 and Ju88

Hi all,

Seems this Ju 88 is ´D-AXVM´ perhaps W.Nr. 0880050 (i.e. ´50´ is seen on u/c leg <as Bernburg mounted ones usually had in the beginnig> and an JFM like ´part plate´ is beside the rear upper gun, seen in photo 23 but is out of focus). This is clearly an early A-1 with the HF (High Frequency) trailing antenna wire mast under right side of fuselage and straight demarcation line of fuselage colours (running straight from flap to tail wheel bay).

The original RLM colours seem to have been oversprayed on wings and fuselage (giving soft edges) with perhaps ´standard Soviet camouflage´ of Dark Green, Dark Earth (Brown) and Light Blue.

Information on other Soviet flown / exported examples whould be interesting. Is it true they also got two Ju 88 A-O´s in 1939?

cheers
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  #6  
Old 22nd June 2005, 11:22
Primoz Primoz is offline
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Re: Early Bf109 and Ju88

I don't think it was Soviet camouflage. It must have been the original camo it was delivered in. The German registration ("D-AXVM") remained untouched and the Nazi flag on the tail fin was only lightly overpainted with the white disc still showing through. I went through some books last night and found a few pix of Soviet (early) Ju 88s. It was mentioned somewhere that the Ju 88 in question was one of two Ju 88 K (export version of the Ju 88 A-1). But the Russioans also had at least one Ju 88 A-0 with 4-bladed props and a WL-... registration (and the usual 70/71 camo).I think the Soviet Ju 88 A-1 (or K) carried a 3-color camouflage on its upper surfaces and sides and it must have been either RLM 61/62/63 (like the Hungarian Ju 86s and Rumanian He 111s) or a special export camo (two greens and sand, I think it was RLM 67/68/69, like the Austrian Ju 86s).
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  #7  
Old 22nd June 2005, 17:57
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: Early Bf109 and Ju88

The export colours are now thought of as being a myth. The colours are likely to be 61/62/63 as suggested above, to a factory-designed pattern.
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Old 23rd June 2005, 09:49
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ChrisMAg2 ChrisMAg2 is online now
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Re: Early Bf109 and Ju88

Hey guys,
have you checked the photos #16-18 and 23 of the Ju 88? To me it doesn't look like the cockpit of a Ju 88, but from a Do 17. What do you think?
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Christian M. Aguilar
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  #9  
Old 23rd June 2005, 10:44
Primoz Primoz is offline
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Re: Early Bf109 and Ju88

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Boak
The export colours are now thought of as being a myth. The colours are likely to be 61/62/63 as suggested above, to a factory-designed pattern.
Well, some export Ju 86s carried a 3-color camouflage consisting of two greens and a sand color (but I don't know if this was an official export camo scheme).
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Old 23rd June 2005, 12:45
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: Early Bf109 and Ju88

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primoz
Well, some export Ju 86s carried a 3-color camouflage consisting of two greens and a sand color (but I don't know if this was an official export camo scheme).
This is often illustrated, but was it real? Where have you got this information from?

In the case of Swedish aircraft, it has been shown that the colours were the original prewar trio. I cannot confirm that this has been demonstrated for the Hungarian ones (though I think I've seen a colour photo), but the Austrian ones were uncamouflaged, I believe.
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