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  #1  
Old 8th July 2009, 23:01
RT RT is offline
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17.Febr. 1940 Crash of a He111 III.KG51

Who knows more about this 100 % crash ?? 4 dead

Remi
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Old 9th July 2009, 00:22
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: 17.Febr. 1940 Crash of a He111 III.KG51

Remi,

Normally Peter Cornwell, who is the main overseer of the EOE Luftwaffe data base would answer this, but he is in France on a vacation, so I'll jump in here. Our much revised all-source DB of all Luftwaffe losses (less training) is now complete from 1.9.39 through 31.8.40, and Peter will resume work on completing this through the end of 1940 when he returns. We already have a draft list through the end of the year, but Peter is extensively updating his earlier "BoBT&N" & "The Blitz Then and Now" work, and continuing it to the end of 1940. We will probably be making upgrades and changes forever to this DB, once completed, and are now diligently attempting to match thousands of crash and FL photos to these losses as well as data from about 200 FB, with a great deal of success. Many new W.Nr. and plane codes, as well as more precise crash locations from combat actions are coming out of this effort.

Our revised DB shows the following, which I'm quite sure is based upon NVM info provided by Winfried Bock, who has shared his entire NVM data with us for the 1939-40 period. This has allowed up to come up with the crew names and positions not found in Peter's "The Battle of France: Then and Now":

"February 17, 1940: III./KG51 Heinkel He111H-2. Stalled and crashed 2 km east of Memmingen flying in snow shower. (Ff) Fw Joachim Müller, (Beo) Oberfw Bernhard Knobel, (Bf) Oberfw Rudolf Klinke, and (Bm) Oberfw Johann Gonnar all killed. Aircraft 100% write-off."

If anyone who reads this knows of any photos of this incident, I would greatly appreciate hearing about it. Obviously we would also like to know the Staffel of this a/c, and any possible plane codes or W.Nr. for this loss.

Regards,
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Old 9th July 2009, 08:49
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Re: 17.Febr. 1940 Crash of a He111 III.KG51

Not bad Larry, the crew; 3 were part of 7. one of 8.KG51, 3 planes are flying from Landsberg/L to Memmingen for MG built-in, in the area of Landsberg was seated an Exercice-place for bombing-practice

Remi
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Old 9th July 2009, 12:54
steve sheridan steve sheridan is online now
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Re: 17.Febr. 1940 Crash of a He111 III.KG51

Hi Remi, who was the 8/KG51 crew member?
could you please help.

Best regs,
Steve.
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Old 9th July 2009, 18:33
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Re: 17.Febr. 1940 Crash of a He111 III.KG51

Klinke rudolf ofw bf t 7,KG51 230713-
Knobelspiess bernhard ofw bm t 7,KG51 060812-
Müller joachim fw f t 7,KG51 080414-
Gönner johann ofw bm t 8,KG51 150411-

Names differ from those given by Larry, Gönner "klingt" more german, Knobel/Knobelspiess , NVM+ VdK give Knobelspies/spiess

Remi
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Old 11th July 2009, 10:22
steve sheridan steve sheridan is online now
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Re: 17.Febr. 1940 Crash of a He111 III.KG51

Hi Remi, many thanks to you.
Very interesting to see variation in the names.

Best regs,
Steve.
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Old 11th July 2009, 11:32
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: 17.Febr. 1940 Crash of a He111 III.KG51

It's Johannes Gönner indeed. See his entry on www.volksbund.de

He rests at Memmingen-Waldfriedhof and was from Bingen.

Regards,

Leendert
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