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  #1  
Old 21st July 2005, 22:50
Jon Jon is offline
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My findings on Sgt Bann 238 Squadron Battle of Britain

Ok! for those interested here goes: -

Please remember I am only an amateur who has been fascinated by Sgt Bann of 238 during his short life in the RAF during the Battle of Britain. My findings below are by no means definitive, so if you know more, or disagree, please, please let me know.

I have listed below his kills (or kills he had a hand in) and narrowed down to four the pilots, one of whom, shot him down over the Isle of Wight.
The findings are a mixture of bits of information from various books and also from the copies of the RAF form 541 operations record book for 238. I have copies of his original letters home and also have had conversations with the late Sgt Gordon Batt and Sgt Bann's brother Maurice who is alive and well. Researching just these few details, has given me a great deal of respect for those on this site who research regularly and in much more depth and write books on the subject.

Sgt Bann confirmed / shared kills....?

1) 13/07/40. BF110. 15 (Z) LG1. Lt Eisele, Uffz Lochow KIA.
Zerstorer Page 88-89 authors Peter Cornwell and John Vasco.

2) 13/07/40. DO17 P. 2 (f) /123. 4U+DK Lt Weinbauer, Uffz Peland
Oblt Graf, Von Kosselstadt all KIA. ( another DO17 was damaged but
made it back and crashed in France) maybe one he attacked ?

3) 21/07/40. DO17M. 4(F)/14 5F+OM Oblt Thier, FW Bohnen ,
Uffz Werner all POW's

4) 11/08/40. JU88 11/ KG54 one of 3 or 4 lost off Portland late
morning ( claimed as a HE111 by Bann and Marsh )

5) 13/08/40 HE111 P. 111/KG27 Sgt Bann claimed a HE111 on this day
(only RAF claim on this type this date) Single HE111 shot down by an RAF
fighter and ditched off Cherbourg...Luftwaffe crew claimed being
intercepted in same locaion as Bann claimed kill. Pilot unknown but
survived...Oberfw weber, Oberfw Eggers, Oberfw Klemm..... KIA.

Pilots who could have killed Sgt Bann on 28/09/40....?

Hptm Helmut Wick 1/JG2 BF 109
Oblt Karl Heinz Krahl 3/JG2 BF 109
FW Erwin Richey 3/JG2 BF 109

FW Helmut Haugk 7/ZG 26 BF110

As i have said all research is amateur...please be nice to me !!!!!!!!

Jon

Last edited by Jon; 21st July 2005 at 22:53.
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  #2  
Old 22nd July 2005, 06:34
robert robert is offline
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Re: My findings on Sgt Bann 238 Squadron Battle of Britain

Hi,

Wick claimed one Hurricane at 15.40, Krahl at 15.44 and Richey at 15.45 in the same area - so I think that Krahl and Richey for sure shared their victory.

Regards

Robert
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Old 22nd July 2005, 09:32
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: My findings on Sgt Bann 238 Squadron Battle of Britain

No known accounts of Richey and Krahl, so no conclusions can be drawn!
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Old 22nd July 2005, 15:15
robert robert is offline
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Re: My findings on Sgt Bann 238 Squadron Battle of Britain

Franek,

I don`t like your disscussion style.
So this only my assumption. I don`t think that documents will always telling the truth.

Over and out.

Robert
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Old 22nd July 2005, 17:13
Andy Mac's Avatar
Andy Mac Andy Mac is offline
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Re: My findings on Sgt Bann 238 Squadron Battle of Britain

Hi Jon - thankyou for sharing your research. I live in Cornwall - if ever you need photo's of places etc down here give me a shout - I think 238 spent some time in Exeter - but how that place has changed since 1940 !

Cheers!

Andy.
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Old 22nd July 2005, 23:01
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Franek Grabowski
Re: My findings on Sgt Bann 238 Squadron Battle of Britain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Mac
I think 238 spent some time in Exeter - but how that place has changed since 1940 !
Really? Friends were there a couple of years ago and several buildings were still recognisable. Some places changed more, I think.
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Old 22nd July 2005, 23:47
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Franek Grabowski
Re: My findings on Sgt Bann 238 Squadron Battle of Britain

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert
I don`t like your disscussion style.
Feel free to do so.

Quote:
So this only my assumption. I don`t think that documents will always telling the truth.
Show me the documents first! It is already a very complicated matter and such suppositions are not necessary.
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Old 29th July 2005, 01:13
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: My findings on Sgt Bann 238 Squadron Battle of Britain

Hi,

Re Sgt Bann time.

From the FCL Vol 1

Bann baled out after combat but 'chute failed to open 1500, near Fairham. A/c crashed at Brading IoW.

This is a good 3/4 of an hour before the claims quoted above at 1540 -1545.

As there was no time difference were there any earlier claims made that day? perhaps even some that may have been unconfirmed ?

Further -

From FC Claims vol 1

11th August 1940
Sgt E. S. BANN shared with Sgt Marsh an He 111 destroyed 2m ER of Weymouth at 1035.

But

13th August 1940
Sgt. L. G. BATT claimed an He 111 destroyed Isle of Wight Area.

Was this another pilot ?

Even the innitials are different.

Comments please on this discrepancy.

night

Alex
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Old 29th July 2005, 07:09
Jon Jon is offline
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Re: My findings on Sgt Bann 238 Squadron Battle of Britain

Hi Alex.

Yes i can confirm Sgt Gordon Batt also served in 238 Squadron, survived the war and sadly passed away only last year.

As for the times being wrong with Banns shoot down, this is where i need the help... i assume the times on the German side are Northern European time a full hour ahead of ours in England ?
This will put the kill times only 15 minutes out.

Also did a pilot log the kill time exactly or did they do it when the combat was over and they were in a "safe" bit of sky... a quick look at the watch / clock and estimate it was a combat 10 or fifteen minutes ago ???

Thanks for the interest.
Jon
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  #10  
Old 29th July 2005, 14:43
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Alex Smart
Re: My findings on Sgt Bann 238 Squadron Battle of Britain

Hello Jon,


Did I miss something here ?

I thought that Bann's kill was the only He111 that day ?

Batt's would make it two.

or could it be that Bann's was indeed a shared kill after all?

Alex
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