Amiot 143M in Croatian Air force

[Jerome Ribeiro]

Hi Everyone!

The Croatian Air Force used various foreign aircraft such as one Amiot143M all along the WW2.
Apparently the sole french bomber Amiot143M was introduced in 1941. MSN of the aircraft is unknown and I don't known if picture is currently available or related utilization during the war.
Does anyone know information on this bomber?

Thank you in anticipation
Best regards

Jerome

[mig man]

several books on Axis AF state that Croatian AF had this bomber, but that is all! No picture had been seen so far, if there is one!

[Jerome Ribeiro]

Hi Mig Man,

You are right. I don't know whether or not it is a legend or myth about this Amiot143. After 3 years to crawled the web, discussed in several aero forum and dug in the french archives, nothing is perspiring... nor croatian report, nor french clues, neither photo!
After discussion with people on this forum, it is clear the question is still open. Even a dedicated trip to Croatia, Bosnia or Serbia ....that it to say ex Yugoslavia country will not be so easy to find info due to the fact that archives have been scattered and not easily to access (see various discussion).

Maybe someone could provide another path to find info about this bomber.... or can access to the Croatian/Bosnian/Serbian archives!

I keep an eye open!


Best Regards

Jerome

[Boris Ciglic]

Hello Jerome,

It aint a myth nor a legend. This plane existed, as do Yugoslav and Croat documents about it. As for the photo - that one we'll have to wait. The plane was flown by Czech crew to Zagreb in 1940. It was then taken to Kraljevo. I saw a document about official commision being sent from Belgrade to Kraljevo to examine Bronzavia radio set on the "X Plane". While the RYAF was deciding if to refurbish it for para-duties or to scrap it (it was in awfull state) Yugoslavia was overrun. Germans sold it to Croatia, where it had a serial 1701 and short and uneventfull career, being damaged at the end of 1941 when one of its landing legs collapsed. It eventually ended as an decoy, if I remember correctly, at Rajlovac, where allied fighters "practiced" live firing on it on many occassions in summer 1944.
In contrast to that, some recent stories and "findings" that it was actually an Amiot 351 or 354 are myth and legend.
Forget the Archives in Serbia, more or less they are mess and would take you too much time. But if you're looking for good social life then do not hesitate and pack your things!

Cheers,
Boris

[Jerome Ribeiro]

Hello Boris,

It's good to get some news from you since last discussion on this bomber! For sure, I am exiting to see a picture of this Amiot 143M with Yugoslav first and Croatian then. I am patient... To date, nobody see such pictures and no testimony or report from pilotes were gathered at least thru various discussion on forums. Rest the archives to obtain evidences!

Please coud you please clarify "do Yugoslav and Croat documents about it". it seems that you had the opportunity to access to precious documents tied to this bomber. I am very interested to see them. if any, could you please contact me directly on my e_mail. I am very interested to stride over the croatian, serbian or czech countries to obtain these documents, package would be ready in 5 min!

thanking you in anticipation
best regards

Jerome

[Lennart Andersson]

A friend of mine wrote that this Amiot 143 (Gnome et Rhone 14K engines, called aircraft "X" in RYAF documents) was flown to Yugoslavia by a Czech crew serving with the Armee de l'Air after occupation Czechoslovakia in 1939. They flew from France on 18 June 1940 and landed in Zagreb and two days later went on to Belgrade. The crew then left for North Africa and the Amiot was flown to Kraljevo.

Some modifications were carried out, such as replacement of the bomb racks in the bomb bay, radio equipment and machine guns (adaptation to Yugoslav equipment?). At the end of March 1941 the aircraft was still in French markings and it was captured by the Germans in April 1941. It passed to the Croatian Air Force in September 1941 and flew occasionally in 1942. Low serviceability and sabotage by ground crew hampered its use. Finally, in the spring/summer of 1944 it was used at Rajlovac (Sarajevo) as a decoy for allied aircraft.

A very interesting aircraft, indeed!

Lennart Andersson

[Jerome Ribeiro]

Hello Lennart

Thank you to enlighten me about this Amiot143M saga. It is coherent with the comments of Boris.
To pursuie this investigation, I have to perform scrutiny into the French Archives dubbed "SHD/A" near Paris to determine the MSN of the A/C. The starting points will be the date of the mission ie 18 June'40, the Czech crew & bomber mission to the East in the current Bomber Squadron at this time (Groupement n°10, GBI/34 & II/34, GBI/38 & GBII/38).
If you have additional details or evidences,please let me know

I will keep you inform

Cheers

Jerome

[David Sumerauer]

Hello Jerome,

The flight was not scheduled as a regular combat mission. This particular aircraft was used by Czech personell of GB I/21 for evacuation from Agen airbase near Bordeaux only. The aircraft was offered personally by Gen. Joseph Vuillemin, who was present at the airfield in that time.

The crew intended to fly to England but due to flak damage from previous service and some controls malfunction crew changed the flight direction to Yugoslavia. The crew (Sgt. Otakar Zanta, Sgt. Jan Irving, Sgt. Alois Keda, Sgt. Ladislav Malovec) were interned till December 1940 than escaped and via Greece evacuated to Turkey and later to England where they have joined RAF. Since they were missing for six months the whole crew was awarded Czech Medal for Bravery in memoriam in October 1940 by Czech authorities.

P/O Otakar Zanta (169918) was captain of 311 Sqn Liberator GR MkVI, BZ995/G, "J" when reported missing from antisubmarine patrol on March 13, 1944. Previously he was credited with sinking of U966 on November 10, 1943.

Sgt Alois Keda (788087) was killed on April 6, 1942, in accident of Wellington Ic, P9299, KX-A of 1429. COTF which crashed during cross coutry training flight probably due to engine malfunction.

J. Irving and L. Malovec survived the war.

Regards David

[Jerome Ribeiro]

Good Afternoon David,

It is very interesting your information about this bomber. This will allow to determine the MSN of this aircraft among the 123 Amiot143M used by the 4 Bomber Squadrons ie G.B.I/34, II/34, I/38 & II/38 during the "Battle of France" starting from the 10 May'40.After checking documents & various magazines, there is no pertinent information about A/C used from the Agen airfied, especially around the 18 June'40. At this time, confusing retreat was done by all the Figther & Bomber Squadrons. Investigation on French Archive at the "SHD" will tell us. i intend to do that during my next vacation.

Please note that the Squadron Bomber G.B.I/21 used the Bloch MB210 (9) & some new Amiot354 (5). I guess that this is mentioned crew flew the Amiot143M to Zagreb on 18 June'40 and not an Amiot354 as discussed ealier in this forum. It is an another mystery subject to clear later!

Do you know whether or not Jan Irving and Ladislav Malovec are still alive nowodays?

Best Regards

Jerome

[David Sumerauer]

Hello Jerome,

L. Malovec passed away on March 17, 1986 and J.R. Irving passed on April 24, 1997. I can not confirm the type of aircraft flown but Czech sources repeatedly claim that they were flying MODERN bomber (Amiot 351/354?).

For your information there was second Czech crew flying Marcel Bloch BM210 from Agen the very same day to England. The crew K. Schor, F. Petr, B. Baumruk and F. Kracmer, all pilots from GB II/21 crashlanded near Darthmouth. All were later flying with RAF, with B. Baumruk and F. Kracmer being killed flying Wellington bombers on operations. F. Petr survived the war as POW and K. Schor survived two tours of operations. F. Petr died in 2002, K. Schor in 1986.

Regards David