56FG belly landings in Belgium

[Alain57]

1st Lt Van Noy George H Jr , 1st Lt Rotzler Charles M and 1st Lt Hodges James P Jr ( WIA ) 56 Fg belly landed their P-47’s in Belgium on September 18 1944. Can someone help me with the serialnumbers of the aircraft ?

[Alex Smart]

Hello Alain,

As I'm sure you know Sixteen of the 56FG P47's were downed on the 18th Sept 44.
This is just to confirm that you know of the 56th FG webpage at www.56thfightergroup.co.uk which might be helpful.
Also I find that a/c noted as 42-25531 should be 43-25531, they are two different P47's, the 43- being I think the correct serial number.

Eight crashed or forcelanded in Allied Territory so hence no MACR's.

From the Mighty eighth Combat Chronology
Lt. William G. Bartle evaded.
David P. Kling evaded
2Lt Robert G. Kelley evaded.( NA has him as a POW of the 56 twin engine Fighter Group).
Lt. Thomas Guerrero jr KIA.
Capt. Gordon S. Stevens KIA.
2Lt. Trevor A. Edwards KIA.
2Lt. Elwood D. Raymond KIA.
1 other crash landed at Southminister pilot KIA.
2Lt. William M. Hartshoorn POW. (NA does not have him listed as a POW).
Lt. William W. McElhare POW. (NA has him as Kelley above 56 twin engine Fioghter group).

With the three names you have plus the Southminister name that would give 13 of the 16 pilots. Three/four more names needed.


Good hunting
Alex

[Peter Randall]

The other three were:
Conger, Paul A 61FS force landed B-52 Douai, France and returned later.
Womak, Herschel O 62FS force landed Beverloo, Belgium and returned later and
Fleming, Philip E 62FS no details other than it appears that he either crashed or force landed near Eindhoven and obviously returned as he completed his tour in April 1945.

I have no details on the Southminster one unless it is Raymond who was killed bailing out at Bradwell Bay? I'm afraid that the only serial numbers available for all these incidents are those where an MACR was issued. The 56th were not renowned for recording such detail, or if they were, the records have not survived.

I think you will find that 42-25531 is in fact correct as 43-25531 served with the 362nd FG with whom it suffered two crash landings due to engine problems on 2 March and 27 May 1945.

Hope this helps.

Peter

[lampie]

Elwood Raymond was indeed the pilot killed bailing out near Bradwell Bay.
Theres a video interview with Bill Hartshorn here.
http://www.56thfightergroup.co.uk/interviews.htm
He describes the days events from his unique perspective.
Robert Winters of the 62nd FS was flying that mission and recently recounted to me that they were under orders not to open fire unless fired upon and that flying under a low overcast of approximately 800ft the P-47s were perfectly silhouetted which made them sitting ducks for the ground fire.
The 56th recieved its 2nd Unit Citation for this mission.
Nige
www.56thfightergroup.co.uk

[Alex Smart]

Hello Peter,

Thanks for the note on the serial number.
42-25531 in the P47 Thunderbolt Database ( http://pagesperso-orange.fr/p-47.database/index.html ) has Kelley's a/c as 43-25531 which it says was 63rd FS "UN-A" and then "K" original pilot Barny P. Casteel then MACR8996 18/09/1944 pilot Robert G. Kelly and it seems this is backed up by a photo.
While 42-25531 is noted as with the 356FG 360FS as "PI-T" "Judy" pilot Philip E. Tukey jr.
However I checked in Footnote and MACR 8996 has a definite typed 42-25531 in the report for Kelley. So the P47 Thunderbolt Database seems to hold errors.
All for now
Alex