US Intruder Detachment - Little Snoring

[MW Giles]

Please, can anyone help

I have come across various references to a US detachment under Major T Gates operating alongside 515 Sqn RAF at Little Snoring in Norfolk operating 2 x P-51s and 2 x P-38s as night intruders (operational trials). The unit was in place between 20.02.44 and 24.04.44 and flew 10 sorties in March 44 (from 24th onwards) and 21 in April 44. There were no claims but at least one reference suggests a P-38 was lost.

I have exhausted all the National Archives references I can think of for 100 Group, 515 Sqn, Little Snoring, Bomber Command Night Raid Reports etc and have all the books on 100 Group but no luck. Streetly makes a few references and Martin Middlebrook also notes a handful of sorties in his Nürnberg raid book.

I am trying to compile a list of sorties, can anyone point me in the right direction please

Regards

Martin

[RSwank]

There is a MACR 3750 for a P38J 42-67862 flown by James Howard Corbet O746049. He took off from Little Snoring on 12 Apr 44 destination Ijmuiden on a night intruder mission. He did not return. The statement says Lt Corbet was on detached service flying with the RAF at Little Snoring. "No contact was made with him after he took off and this Headquarters is therefore unable to submit any maps or statements regarding the location or circumstances of this casualty. "

The MACR is filed under the 20th FG, 79th FS, which may be his "home" group.

The MACR lists the "normal" serial number of guns carried, 4 machine guns and a cannon, but also includes a Bell Howell camera
# 121613 .

Corbet is listed DED.

Update: I corrected the plane serial number it is 42-67862 (not 42-87862) as first posted.

[brewerjerry]

Hi
A very interesting subject, presumably the aircraft would have been re painted in intruder colours of some sort.
any idea which mark of p-51's used
might be worth a post here
http://forum.armyairforces.com/default.aspx

It will be interesting to see what info turns
cheers
Jerry

[RSwank]

Major T Gates "may" be Major Thomas L Gates, (later Lt Col) flying P-51s with the 357th fighter group in the fall of 1944. I could not verify this, but someone might be able to do so. Here is a link with a little on "Major Thomas Gates" of the 357th FG.

http://www.cebudanderson.com/arnhemaffair.htm

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
Just for interest.
From Middlebrook's "BC War Diaries" re 515 Squadron.
Page 775
Flew "Serrate" and Intruder operations with Mosquitoes from 5 March 44 .
Flew 1366 Mosquito sorties and lost 21 aircraft in 239 serrate/Intruder and 9 escort operations.
Claimed 11 German aircraft in the air; 18 on the ground and 5 damaged on the ground.
Suffered most losses and highest % loss in 100 Group Mosquito squadrons.
Page 494
11/12 April
7 Serrate patrols.
12/13 April
2 Mosquito Serrate patrols.
Looks like no losses (Mosquito) recorded ?
Were the Lightnings mistaken for Mosquitos ?
Is it known what 515 Sqdn Mosquitos were on ops these days ?
Would 515's ORB tell us ?
Alex

[RSwank]

Alex,
I don't think this little unit of 4 planes 2-P51s and 2-P38s was ever "on the books" of 515 squadron. I suspect the whole purpose to try and evaluate whether the current planes in the AAF, particularly the P38, were at all suitable for night intruder operations, while they awaited the arrival and then acceptance of the P-61s. The P-61 were arriving at about this time in Europe and had some problems, as is discussed in this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-61

The AAF in the Pacific was also doing modifications of P-38s to try and get an effective night fighter/intruder.

"If" the T Gates in charge of this experiment is in fact the Thomas Gates later of the 357th it would appear they had a very experienced man in charge. Thomas Gates was trained as an Army Pilot in 1931, worked for the CAA as a flight (and aircraft?) inspector in the 30s then went back into the AAF during the war.

[MW Giles]

Thank you everyone, you have been most helpful

I was particularly pleased to get the details of the loss on the 12th April 44, Bishop and Hey confirm the serial as 42-67862 in Vol 3 of Losses of the US 8th and 9th Air Forces.

I do not think the detachment was taken on the books of 515 Sqn, but operated alongside to learn from each other. When the Droop Snoot P-38s of the 7th PG (R) operated with 192 Sqn in an Elint role their sorties are included as part of the 192 Sqn ORB. I was hoping the intruder detachment at Little Snoring would appear in the RAF records on a similar basis. No such luck, which is why I posted the first message.

Martin Streetly states that at least one of the P-38s was resprayed in Medium Sea Grey and Dark Green as per 515 Sqns Mossies and gives a side view on page 148 of his book The Aircraft of 100 Group. He also mentions another P-38 with natural metal uppers and black undersides, decorated with a yellow lightning flash marking.

A picture of such a P-38 appears on page 99 of Bowman and Cushing's book Confounding the Reich - The Operational History of 100 Group (Bomber Support) RAF. There is no serial no visible on the tail, but it has the name Miss Ann on the nose and a lighning flash on the side of the stbd engine cowling just above the air intake. I am not sure if the upper surfaces are in natural metal or have been painted grey as the normal anti-glare panel on the nose is missing (the upper surfaces are definitely not in OD as there is a regular camouflaged P-38 in the photo behind and the tones are completely different)

I have not found any illustration or photograph of the P-51s. There is a record of a sortie to Berlin, therefore it is likely the aircraft would be P-51 Bs or perhaps Cs.

I think the Major Gates in this detachment is the one RSwank (sorry I do not know your name) refers to. One source gives his initials as TL

Regards

Martin

[RSwank]

A picture of Miss Ann can be viewed by clicking the image on this page.

http://www.station131.co.uk/Visitors...ges%20Page.htm

Regards,
Rolland

[MW Giles]

Rolland

Thanks for the link. Not the same photo as in the book but definitely the same aircraft

Regards

Martin

[brewerjerry]

Hi
Thanks for the camo info.
cheers
Jerry