Re: Luftwaffe combat claims

[Bandlaw Charlie]

I'm researching a number of combats that took place over Europe at night...between Bomber Command aircraft and the German Night fighters

Apart from fairly standard claims lists that exist in either print (Theo Boiten's series) and on-line, I'm wandering if original copies exist, and if they do what format do they take...?

I've asked many people and have never been able to get a definitive answer....what I'm really looking for is the pilot's description of the combats themselves....in many cases pilots have been given the victory but we as researchers don't know for sure if they were the right pilots...

Can someone please help me or put me onto someone that might be able to??

Thank you so very much.

[Chris Goss]

Such combats reports (abschussbericht) are, unlike Allied combat reports, generally like hen's teeth i.e almost impossible to find

[Peter]

Is this what you are looking for?

[Andy F-P]

If you are looking for what Peter shows, I have one to Helmut Lent from July 1941..............

There are also a few floating about and nightfighter abschussmeldungen and Gefechtberichten tend to be more numerous than their day claim counterparts.

For example:

https://www.history-shop.de/katalog/...CHWADER_1.html

Regards,
Andy

[ClinA-78]

"money money money..."

[Bandlaw Charlie]

Guys,
I have a wife and two hungry kids to contend with...so no, I don't want to buy any....besides, if you ask me, these things should be in public archives so everybody can access their details...


I'm doing some research on Fritz Stehle 1/JG7..and his claims on March the 31st 1945...he shot down three lancasters apparently on this day...but I can find absolutely no information on him, other than the fact he passed away in October 2008.

Another chap is:
Helmut Burkhard from 1/NJG5 (4 claims registered during WWII)
and
Manfred Meurer, who shot down my Great Uncle on June 17th 1943...he is reputed to have claimed four bombers on this night....I desperately want ot know what happened....

Perhaps someone out there knows.....

A tall order, I know....but if any place can help me, this is the one.....

[RodM]

Hi,

the Nachtjagd combats reports shown were part of what I assume was a complete/near complete collection relating to II./NJG1 that survived the war (and somehow evaded capture by the Allies, which is why they aren't preserved in an archive). The collection ended up in the hands of a German researcher, but upon his death it was sold wholemeal and then re-sold piecemeal.

A wartime hand-written listing that summarises all NJG6 combat reports also survives in private hands.

Other than that, various Nachtjagd combat reports that survived the war are in the hands of veterans, veteran's families, and collectors, but such collections are fragmentary and often usually only concern the reports of an individual.

Besides the few actual combat reports that survive, other details of claims are found in the confirmation certificates issued to the individuals concerned, and the flying logbooks and books of achievement for members of aircrew. The few surviving KTBs of Nachtjagd units also have some claims details.

Cheers

Rod

[Bandlaw Charlie]

Well, I guess I'll just have to hope that someone comes across my request and just happens to have the information I need.....

Obviously the one concerning my Great Uncle is very important to me...apart from the fact that Meurer is reputed to have killed him and his crew at about 17,000 feet, I know nothing else.....

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Bandlaw Charlie

...in many cases pilots have been given the victory but we as researchers don't know for sure if they were the right pilots...

We pretty much can be in those instances where there was only one claim and one loss at a given time and place, or where only one aircraft of a given type went down. Equally, where a survivor recalled some detail of the attacker that would single it out (e.g. if the attacker was a Ju 88 and only one Ju 88 made a claim). Very few engagements are that simple of course …

[RodM]

Hi,

if you are short of information on the death of your great uncle, I would suggest that you first try to find out, assuming that you haven't already done so, as much as you can about the crash.

There are several documentary sources available via various archives. If an Australian, Canadian, or New Zealander was in the crew then you can look to obtain details of the casualty investigation via the personnel archives in those countries. You would need to know the name and service number of any such crew member.

If the crew contained none of the nationalities mentioned above, you could try to obtain information from the still-classified casualty investigation file held by the British MoD. You can do this by making a Freedom of Information request with MoD. Do a web search on FOI MoD and you will find the link to the website where such requests can be made online. You would need to be specific about the information you require, and provide the aircraft serial, squadron, date of loss, and details of your great uncle.

If you are fortunate in this case, there may be copies of German documents held on file with MoD. Such documents will confirm the crash location, time, and cause of loss as recorded from a German perspective (note - such documents do not include any combat report to the best of my knowledge). If making a FOI request be sure to ask for a copies of any German documents on file.

Cheers

Rod