photographs of crashed Do17 U5+DA on ebay.

[Bf 110]

Hello,

found this auction on ebay: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Foto-not...item20bfab4dbd

Stab/KG2 U5+DA with visible W.Nr. crashed May 1940 in Saargebiet(?).
Further info would be appreciated.

rgds,
Bf 110

[steve sheridan]

Hi Bf110, really disappointing response from this thread, i thought these quality photos would have brought more interest!
As a side note, i cant find any recorded loss for this in KG2's losses for May 1940.

Perhaps Larry Hickey and the EOE team could possibly narrow this one down?

Best regs,
Steve.

[Matti Salonen]

One of these (maybe the first one) could be possible:
1940-05-09, Stabsst./KG 2, Do 17Z, Bei Homburg/Saar, Notlandung infolge Beschuß durch feindliche Jäger. Bruch 80 %.
1940-05-13, Stabsst./KG 2, Do 17Z, Südlich Sedan, Flakbeschuß. Bruch 10 %.
1940-05-16, Stabsst./KG 2, Do 17Z, Gelnhausen, Notlandung nach Luftkampf mit Jägern. Bruch 20 %.
1940-05-17, Stabsst./KG 2, Do 17U, Fl.Pl. Mainz-Finthen, Rollschaden. Bruch 30 %.
1940-05-18, Stabsst./KG 2, Do 17Z, Bei Rehlingen, Notlandung infolge Motorschaden. Bruch 40 %.
1940-05-27, Stabsst./KG 2, Do 17Z, Ostvleteren, 15 km südwestlich Dixmude, Notlandung nach Luftkampf. Bruch 100 %.
1940-05-29, Stabsst./KG 2, Do 17Z, Nördlich Breteuil sur Noye, Beschuß durch Jäger. Bruch 60 %.

Matti

[Nordpol54]

Matti,

i am very impressed of each of Your postings all the time. Looks like You are the keeper of the LW-losses-Grail.
Suspicingly: You are not online with GQM, or?

Greets
Norbert

[Nordpol54]

"1940-05-16, Stabsst./KG 2, Do 17Z, Gelnhausen, Notlandung nach Luftkampf mit Jägern. Bruch 20 %."

Matti,

just beeing as bold to ask: if that plane went home from a mission over France why the heck did it went as far as it did inspite that a lot of airfields had been more convenient - or in other words closer - to reach for a presumed merely safe landing?
Thanks in advance for any additional infos as for details of this kite and its crew.

y/f
Norbert

[Bf 110]

Thanks Steve and Matti for your comments.
Following losses I would exclude:
1940-05-09, Stabsst./KG 2, Do 17Z, Bei Homburg/Saar, Notlandung infolge Beschuß durch feindliche Jäger. Bruch 80 %. To me it doesn't look like 80 % damage.

1940-05-17, Stabsst./KG 2, Do 17U, Fl.Pl. Mainz-Finthen, Rollschaden. Bruch 30 %. It's apparently a Z version.

What's interesting to me, this a/c has no unit insignia. By the way could someone decipher the W.nr.? Looks like 235x (x = last digit unclear)

rgds,
Bf 110

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

To follow up on the 40-05-09 theory, we carry this in the EOE Luft loss/casualty DB as:

"May 9, 1940: Stabsstaffel KG2 Dornier Do17Z. Wrecked in crash-landing at Homburg-Saar (Germany). Crew unhurt. Aircraft 80% damaged - write-off."

I note that Homburg is in the Saarland of Germany and very close to the French border.

For the 40-05-17 incident:

"May 17, 1940: Stabsstaffel KG2 Dornier Do17Z. Damaged in taxying accident at Ober-Olm. No crew casualties. Aircraft 50% damaged but repairable."

Both Ober-Olm and Mainz-Finthen (see Bf110 entry above) Airfields are in the Rhineland-Palatinate District of Germany. I can't account for the difference in location, subtype and damage % between our listing and the one provided by Bf 110, but neither are in the Saar and are quite far from the French border. So it would appear that if the photo caption is correct, then the May 9th incident is far more likely. The plane was apparently more severely damaged than the limited photography suggests, but by the rippling in the fuselage skin in two of the photos, I suspect that the internal structure of this a/c may have been badly bent, and hence the fact that the a/c was considered a write off do to the failure of structural integrity.

I'd very much like to nail this one down, including the W.Nr. The bid price is pretty high already so it may be difficult to win this one on eBay, but if anyone would like to go in with me on it, I'd appreciate the offer to share it. I'm currently working a/c selections for 91 different color profiles for KG2 from the 1939-40 period, and, if we can nail down the W.Nr. and the correct swastica position, this could well be one of them.

One other comment, if my understanding of the KG2 fuselage nose-band color coding is accurate, the diagonal nose band IS the unit insignia and it, and the letter "D" should be medium blue (for Gesch. Stab). If someone knows different, I'd like to hear about it. There is a KG2 Stabstaffel insignia adopted prior to the Battle of Britain, but this plane does not carry that emblem. That issue has been addressed in another fairly recent post on this Board.

One other note, the steeple in the background could tell us a rather precise location for this incident, if anyone can ID this village church (in Homburg?).

Regards,

[RossGmann]

Hi BF 110
The following link http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/commonwealth_vale.htm may be of help/interest
Towards the evening on 16 April six 80 Squadron Hurricanes were scrambled to intercept bombers (reported as Ju88s), which were attacking a munitions factory half a mile from Eleusis. Pilot Officer Vale and Pilot Officer J. Still each claimed one destroyed near the target, whilst Sergeant Edward Hewett chased another to the north and claimed this shot down as well.
The German bombers appear to have been Do17Zs of Stabstaffel/KG 2, which lost three such aircraft – reportedly in the Larissa area. These were U5+GA (Leutnant Ludwig Rohr), U5+BA (Leutnant Heinrich Hunger) and U5-DA (Hauptmann Konrad Ebsen); all the crews failed to return.

Please note when searching site that Aircraft is entered U5-DA & not U5+DA

Kind regards

Ross

[Matti Salonen]

That was in 1941 in Greece, not in 1940 in Frankreich.

Matti

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

Thanks Matti you beat me to it.

Norbert