07.04.1940 I/ZG 2 losses

[arnaud]

I think Fw Kurt Mueller has this number 55.565/7 as Erkennungsmarke. Isn't it? He was killed on April the 7th 1940...

Uffz W. Ehm and Gefr Penkert were killed during the same air combat. I don't have their Erkennungsmark?

But some historians mentioned also Uffz Neumann and Lt Lindermann as killed too that day... Does anyone could confirm or not those informations?

Thank you...

[Larry Hickey]

Arnaud,

I don't have an answer about the Erkennungsmarke for Müller. Perhaps Peter Cornwell does and can address that part of your comments. Here is what we carry in the EOE Loss DB for I./ZG2 for April 7th.

"2./ZG2 Messerschmitt Bf110C. Shot down in combat with Curtiss H-75s of GC I/5 and Moranes of GC III/6 south of Sedan p.m. Possibly that claimed by S/Lt Warnier of GC I/5 at Beaumont-en-Argonne. (Ff) Fw Kurt Müller and (Bf) Gefr Herbert Penkert killed. Aircraft 100% write-off.

3./ZG2 Messerschmitt Bf110C. Shot down in combat with Curtiss H-75s of GC I/5 and Moranes of GC III/6 south of Sedan p.m. Possibly that claimed by Lt Dorance of GC I/5 at Stonne. (Ff) Lt Johannes Kiel baled out and captured unhurt, (Bf) Unterfw Werner Ehm killed. Aircraft 3M+AL 100% write-off."

As you can see, we don't have specific crash locations here nor a specific time, other than p.m., for the incidents. Any help that you could provide with these would be appreciated. Have you been able to locate contemporary crash photos for either of these losses?

Regarding Uffz Neumann & Lt. Lindermann, I did a search on these two names against our April, 1940 loss list and came up empty for I./ZG2, so I can't help you there.

Regards,

[arnaud]

Bonjour Monsieur Hickey,

Thank you for your answer. I made the same conclusion as you for those losses. For Linderman, an efficient answer has been given.

My last question is: Who has this number: 55.565/7.

I don’t have many documents from WASt for the Phoney War. Does anyone have those documents for those two losses? Your price will be mine...

Yours sincerely

[RT]

Neumann is posted in place of Herbert Penkert, by some sources....

Rémi

[Matti Salonen]

This is what I have:
1940-04-07, 1./ZG 1, Bf 110C, Nordwestlich Sylt (Pl.Qu. 05 Ost 6740), In Luftkampf abgeschoßen. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Lt Lindemann, Johannes, +
Bordfunker Uffz Jentsch, Max, +
1940-04-07, 3./ZG 2, Bf 110C, 3205, 3M+AL, Stonne, Absturz nach Luftkampf. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Lt Kiel, Johannes, gefangen
Bordfunker Ofw Ehm, Werner, +
Lt Kiel mit Fallschirm abgesprungen. Zurück.
1940-04-07, 3./ZG 2, Bf 110C, 1 km südöstlich Beaumont-en-Argonne, Unbekannt. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Fw Müller, Kurt, +
Bordfunker Gefr Penkert, Herbert, +

Your EKM-number is of Müller.

Cannot find any Neumann of ZG 1 or ZG 2.

Matti

[Stig Jarlevik]

Interesting details

First of all I wonder in which combat Lindemann/Jentsch perished.
The loss is not listed in Shores Fledgling Eagles and of course not in Cornwell's BoF then and now since Sylt is basically on the Danish doorstep and more or less the opposite direction of where the other two aircraft went down.

Secondly I wonder which staffel Müller/Penkert belonged. Cornwell says 2./ZG 2 and here he is listed in 3./ZG 2

If Peter reads this, can you please advise from where you got the name Neumann? Shores states Penkert and so does Matti.

B Rgds
Stig

PS:I see that Larry also gives 2./ZG 2 for Müller/Penkert.

[udf_00]

Lindemann loss is listed in Shores' Fledgling Eagles : Pp 217-218.

[Stig Jarlevik]

So he is, thanks

I was staring myself blind on April 9th as the startiing point...

Cheers
Stig