JG 11 losses on 8 October 1943

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello,

I have some conflicts in my files on JG 11 this day against 8th Air Force.

This day Oblt Erich Hondt of 2./JG 11 was hit during an attack on US bombers and rammed the B-17 42-3386 of 100th BG. Both aircraft crashed near Bellingwolde, Netherlands. All ten US crew were killed while Hondt was ejected from his aircraft and survived though heavily wounded.

On the same day another 2./JG 11 pilot, Oblt. Erich Bartels, was lost when his Fw 190 was shot down over the North Sea by return fire of B-17.

Problem is that I have conflicting data about their aircraft. Depending of sources, both pilots are recorded as having flown either Fw 190 A-5 /U12 WNr 410205 or Fw 190 A-4 WNr 410266.

Can someone link these two pilots to the right aircraft ?

Thanks in advance

Laurent

[Miguel]

Laurent,

This is what is said in Jagdfliegerverbände 10/II by Jochen Prien et al.:

02.10.43 1/JG11 Oblt. Friedrich Bartels v. Luftkampf, Absturz 30 Km nördlich Juist, 100 % FW 190 A-5 WN 410205 Ws 4 +

08.10.43 2/JG11 Lt. Erich Hondt Staffelführer verw. Luftkampf, Absturz bei Winschoten, FSA, 100% Fw 190 A-5/U12 Wn 410266 sw 13 +

This information is very conflicting with yours but I can not add anything else

Best regards
Miguel

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Thanks Miguel,

Actually, it seems to me that in some sources, the aircraft of both these pilots were inversed, and then as Hondt ramming was known to have taken place on 8 October, the loss date of 420205 had been "corrected" from 2 to 8 October.

What is written in Mr Prien and co book agree with most of my sources, so I will correct my data like that.

Best regards

Laurent

[G.R.Morrison]

Photos of Hondt and friends with "schwarze 13" show the WNr.410266 visible on the fin.

GRM