Looking for source for color photo of probable Stab III./KG51 He111 crash, probably May, 1940

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

On the WWII in Color Website, there is a posting for this photo:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/german-air-force/aoz.jpg.html

This shows the rear fuselage of a He111 coded 9K+CD, which may be this a/c: "May 19, 1940: Aufklärungsschwarm III./KG51 Heinkel He111H. Badly damaged in fighter attack during reconnaissance sortie to Vitry-le-François and believed crashed near Seilles, east of Namur. Possibly that attacked S/Lt Marchelidon of GC I/2 1.45 p.m. Pilot believed unhurt, BO Uffz Freidrich Weidenbach slightly wounded, BF Uffz Ernst de Mas, BM Uffz Walter Heil, and BS Gefr Edmund Baake all killed. Aircraft 100% write-off."

I've got three other B & W photos of this crash. Is anyone familiar with this crash, which may be near Seilles, E of Namur, France?

I'm also trying to locate the original source for this color photo from which this web image was taken. Anybody familiar with this one?

Regards,

[Pieter H]

Larry,

I can not believe an a/c attacked over Vitry-le-Francois, in eastern France, came down east of Namur, which happens to be in central Belgium, not in France. Much more likely the location was one of the towns xxx-sur-Seille which are between Metz and Nancy.

Regards, Pieter

[Larry Hickey]

Pieter,

Good point. I'll have to pass the ball to Peter Cornwell to sort out the location on this one. Your are right about Namur being in Belgium, not France. Being from Colorado in the USA, a lot of the geographic locations are not as familiar to me as to those of you who live there. My "google maps" search gets a lot of exercise. The first job here is to make sure we accurately know the area where the plane crashed.

Regards,

[Peter Cornwell]

Pieter is absolutely correct on this location, the dead crewmen are buried in France not Belgium. The loss list will be amended accordingly. Thank you Pieter.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Peter Cornwell has now revised this loss for the EoE Luft Loss DB as follows:

"19 May 1940 Western Front: Aufklärungsschwarm III./KG51 Heinkel He111H. Badly damaged in fighter attack during reconnaissance sortie to Vitry-le-François and believed crashed near the Seille river, south of Metz. Possibly that attacked S/Lt Marchelidon of GC I/2 1.45 p.m. Pilot believed unhurt, BO Uffz Freidrich Weidenbach slightly wounded, BF Uffz Ernst de Mas, BM Uffz Walter Heil, and BS Gefr Edmund Baake all killed. Aircraft 100% write-off."

Someone else has pointed out that Ernst de Mas, the BF, has been reported by the KG51 book author, Wolfgand Dierich, as de 'Maas." Again, I'll have to let PC sort that out.

After a massive addition/revision of our EoE holdings for all British losses (FC, BC, CC & RN) in Europe during May, 1940, he's retired to the S. of France to mend his wounded brain with ample quantities of the local elixir. We now have revisions of one more month, June, 1940, to complete our parallel DB on the British side to match what PC and our team has done for the Luftwaffe for the 16-month period from 1.9.39 to 31.12.40. This effort to document all losses for all causes, except for training units, for every country during the project period, is one of the foundational research products for the entire EoE effort. We are now well on our way to developing very detailed unit histories, using this and all other known sources, for the air units of all sides. We're making huge progress, but there is still a long way to go. In addition to using already published unit histories, biographies/autobiographies and diaries, we're compiling leadership lists down to Squadron level, unit subordination, bases, victory lists, and eye-witness accounts and narratives. In addition on the German side, we're including source material from FB, KTB, Unfalliste, aviation archaeology, WNr. reference data and every other source we can acquire to put this all together into one cogent research DB. Once completed, the narrative history will be written based upon this DB. The tremendous support and help from members of the TOCH and LEMB boards continues to be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

[Pieter H]

Hi Larry and Peter,

You're welcome.

Larry, to comfort you, I don't live to close of the locations either. And the struggle to find the exact spot is probably equally big for both of us.
By the way, for finding places I always use www.viamichelin.fr for France (and with different suffixes for all other countries). These contain the famous Michelin maps, which are much more detailed and accurate - in my view than Google Maps. Highly recommended!

Peter, hope you have some details on crash location? Arnaud Gillet in Victoires de la Chasse Francaise says he has no confirmed crash anywhere in the region. Which seems strange given that, as you say, the crew was burried in France.

Regards, Pieter

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Now back to three questions on this one:

1) Where exactly did this aircraft crash in France? Can the specific spot be located?

2) Are the photos we have of 9K+CD, including the color photo, the a/c referenced in the EoE DB entry above?

3) Where can I find the original source of a high-res image of the color photo showing the 9K part of the code?

Regards,

[Laurent Rizzotti]

An old thread, but I checked the death cards now available on fold3:
De Mas and Heil both have as death place "Sailles bei Namur"... very unlikely
Baake has the same, but it is overwritten and a new entry in red says "südl Rethel"