Luftwaffe victory nr Ciney (Belgium) 13 Aug. 1944

[bill norman]

Anyone have any details of a Luftwaffe claim for a Halifax shot down near Ciney (Belgium) the early hours of 13 August 1944?

[ClinA-78]

Hello,

Can you add more info's as I cannot find a claim corresponding to this one?

It could involved a 460 Sqn Halifax but it is only a guess, as two of its crew where buried in Hotton.
However, I have a note about an unidentified British bomber crashed in Achet, a village situated 7 km NE of Ciney, in Summer '44.

Best regards

ClinA-78

[bill norman]

ClinA-78,
The Halifax belonged to 640 Sqdn, Leconfield. Four of the crew who bailed out landed near the village of Lalou, four miles south of Ciney. A second 640 Sqdn Halifax crashed in the forest of Vorholz, 1 mile west of Offenheim, Germany.

Bill Norman (website: www.billnorman.co.uk)

[ClinA-78]

Thus it could match the crashsite at Achet...

[bill norman]

It could. Do you have any other details of the Achet incident? I am hoping that someone might be able to identify the night-fighter responsible.

[Theo Boiten]

Evening gents,

Here's the claim details:

Uffz. Hermann Möckel: 1 2./NJG4 4-mot Havelange: 2.000 m. 01.30 640 Sqn Halifax MZ855

After bombing the target, a/c was hit by Schräge Musik equipped NF, crossing Belgian border crashed at Ciney near Namur, 4 of crew landing 6 km south of Ciney.

Cheers, Theo

[bill norman]

Theo,
Excellent! Does anyone know where I might obtain further details about Uffz. Möckel - picture, combat report, etc?

Bill Norman

[ClinA-78]

I had few details, among location, about Achet crash:
- British bomber
- crashed a couple of weeks before the Liberation
- some killed, others escaped

Surely it needs a ground enquiry but Havelange claim matches also the general area.

A friend of mine has a portrait of Uffz. Möckel. if you can wait one month, I can provide you with.

Best regards

ClinA-78

[bill norman]

ClinA-78,
Thanks for the offer, which is much appreciated. I look forward to seeing the picture.The rear gunner (Sgt Alf Broddle) was a friend of mine. He managed to bail out in time but spent the rest of the war as PoW. Sadly, he died a couple of years ago. Perhaps your friend would like a photograph of the Halifax crew in return?

[ClinA-78]

Hello Bill,

The attached picture was just scanned from Batailles Aériennes N°31 about "Battle of the Bulge" by J-L Roba. If you wish, I could ask to my friend Roland Charlier (who had a correspondance with Möckel) to get a better copy, but, as said, this may take some time.

I just step on the Halifax MZ855 about the Achet crash. But this same night, Lancaster PD230 was also lost in Belgium without given crashplace (some airmen are buried in Hotton).

I reread my notes and witness spoke about a crash occured on the 17th August 44 sic. and involving some Aussies. However both Hali MZ855 and Lanc PD230 crews have Aussies...
So matching "claims-losses-crashsites" is always a tricky plan and I am afraid, Achet, may not be the current crashplace even if the (quite) short distance 'Achet-Laloux' (15 km) would match the distance 'crashsite-landing place'

Perhaps finding bits of a certain type aircraft may solve this... Or maybe someone knows the crashplace of Lanc PD230?

Best regards

ClinA-78

PS: sure, my friend will appreciated a picture of the crew if shared