Details required on Spitfire's JL212/V and W

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
What I have so far on JL212 Spitfire Vc.

http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/p053.htm

JL212Vc TCBAF M46 33MU 4-4-43 47MU 15-4-43 Liberian 5-5-43 Takoradi 29-5-43 Middle East 23-6-43 134S 451S u/c collapsed on landing Idku 2-8-43 SOC 1-12-43

AB's JA100-JZ999
JL212 - 134/451 - Undercarriage collapsed on landing, Idku, 2.8.43.

Spitfire the history
JL212 - M46 - 33 MU 4-4-43, 47 MU 15-4(-43), Liber(Liberian) 5-5(-43), Tak(Takoradi) 29-5(-43), ME 23-6(-43), SOC 1-12(-43).

Fighters over the Aegean
Page 50, "they were our own Spits being flown by German pilots [two of these would have been JL212/V and W, former 74 Squadron aircraft]".

You will see that in the earlier publications there is no mention of JL212 being with 74 Squadron coded a/c "V".
So if it did serve with that squadron does anyone know dates of service please ?
Also any info on the other Spitfire coded "W" what was her serial number ?

Thank you
Alex

[Brian]

Hi Alex and others

An aside: I've just been advised that one of the Spitfires captured at Kos (possibly JL212?) eventually ended up in Czechoslovakia and is now on display in a museum in Prague!

Over to the Spitfire experts!

Cheers
Brian

[Alex Smart]

Hello Brian,
Thanks for the update to Czechoslovakia.

From "Spitfire International" page 98.
Spitfire Mk Vb/trop, captured by the Germans in the Middle East were[points to more than one a/c] tested by the Air Research Institute Vedecky Letecky Ustav at Prague-Letnany 1944/45. One of them was exhibited at Melnik (near Prague) together with a Russian built La-7 in 1945/46, both in Czechoslovakian colours and the Spitfire had a Lion Rampant Queue Forchee badge on the cowling. The fate of this Spitfire is unknown, possibly it was used as a ground instructional airframe by the new CSSR Air Force until scrapped in 1948.

Not to say that the above is not correct but 310 Squadron had a the Lion marking on their aircraft .
Mk.IX TE565 was the a/c exhibited in the museum coded "NN-N"?

Then Mk IX SL651 ex 313 Sqdn then "IR-1" to "V-7" sold to Israel , there is a photo of "V-7" at the Institute in Praha-Letnany, at least five a/c were used, V-7,8,9,12 and 20 are known. Serial numbers known are MJ752, SL651, TE515, TE556 and TE567, all Mk IX's.

Were there Spitfires in Czechoslovakia before the RAF Czech Squadrons 310,311 and 312 returned home ?

Alex

[Brian]

From an article by Jiri Rajlich:

The Prague Spitfire:

The investigation revealed that this particular Spitfire MkVC Trop was one six aircrafts of this type assigned to No. 74 Squadron Royal Air Force and No. 7 Squadron South African Air Force. On October 3, 1943 in the morning hours, these aircrafts got captured by German troops during the successful assault on the Kos island in Dodecanese archipelago, which had been occupied by the Britons and "Badoglio" Italians (operation Eisbar). Subsequently captured all six Spitfires were transported from Kos to Germany to be used in comparative trials, and other technical tests as well as training aids. One of them, the subject of this paper, has at some unspecified point of time reached the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. The trophy example, whose serial number has not been fully clarified, got to the Prague - Letňany aerodrome, where it underwent some unspecified testing by the local Flugtechische VersuchanstaltPrag. It remained there, probably in an unairworthy condition, until the end of the War. After the War it was used as a gate-guard at various places around Czechoslovakia. As an unairworthy training aid, the aircraft was not a part of the Czechoslovak Air Force's flying inventory. Hence it is very difficult to trace any official records of it after 50 many years. Nonetheless, there is photographic evidence of its presence at many places, e.g. Mělník. Bratislava and Prague. For our Military History Institute (MHI) it is noteworthy that this Spitfire MkVC Trop served from late 1945 - early 1946 as the Institute's gate-guard. It was placed there at the occasion of the Royal Air Force exhibition held in the building of today's MHI Army Museum in Prague - Žižkov. Today, a T-34/85 medium tank is located on the same place. Further destinies of this Spitfire Mk.VC Trop remain unexplained. According to unverified accounts it eventually returned to Letňany. They have never tried to restore it to an airworthy condition. Besides that, after the Communist coup of 1948, the authorities were not interested in it serving as a memorial of the Czechoslovak pilots who fought alongside the RAF. The aircraft therefore kept decaying in one of Letňany hangars.

Over to you, Alex
Brian

[Alex Smart]

Hello Brian,

Thank you for this explanation - it does cover all six of the captured aircraft - the 5 from 74 Sqdn and 1 from 7 SAAF. It also covers the reason for the aircraft not coming under Czeck AF for accounting.
What it does not explain is the aircrafts link from 451 Sqdn to 74 Sqdn ?

From what little I have read on 451 Sqdn it was basically a Defence Unit and made only IIRC one major operation in July 43 to Crete, with heavy losses so perhaps this a/c made some kind of early landing instead of return to Egypt and so got taken over by 74 Sqdn or left with the other four and the one 7 SAAF Spitfire's ?

451 Sqdn only received its Spitfire Vc's from around March 43 I beleive.

Also I note that 74 Sqdn did have JL312 on charge which went on to serve with 336 Sqdn. I just wonder if over time JL312 has been mixed up to become the Czeck JL212 ?
But
AB's JA100-JZ999 has:
JL312 - 74/336 - Stalled on approach and undercarriage collapsed Biferno, 10.10.44.
So IMHO this a/c did not serve with 74 Sqdn until after the Kos episode.

Also it is not listed in the Greek section in AB's Spitfire International ?

Has anyone got details of :
JL312's Greek service ?
And
JL212's 451 and 74 Sqdn service ?

Thank you
Alex