Walther Hagenah (JG 3)

[CJE]

According to Prien et al, he scored his 83rd victory on 19 December 1943.
However, Stankey/deZeng credit him of only 17 by the war's end.
Who is right?

Chris

[Johannes]

Hi Chris

Probably a typo error. That for 19th December 1943 was his seventh, and first in the West. Seventeen claims of which fifteen were confirmed(six Russian, nine West, including seven heavy bombers), and two u/c B-17's. First on 12th August 1942, last on 10th April 1945. Possibly awarded the DKiG late 1944 or early 1945.

Regards

Johannes

[Nick Hector]

CJE,

In an interview with Alfred Price that was quoted in some of the cheaper books on the Luftwaffe and the Bf109, Hagenah talked of being mentored by Otto Wessling, who DID have 83 victories. In particular, Hagenah told of how Wessling set up Hagenah's first kill (a LaGG-3, read all about it) by coaching him into position then telling him when to open fire.

I believe therein lies your confusion.

If you find yourself remembering something that you read somewhere in a book sometime ago, try to find said book. Re-read it and answer the question in your own mind. Saves a lot of trouble. And silly questions.

Google is also your friend.

[CJE]

Originally Posted by Nick Hector

And silly questions.

Excuse me?

I don't have this book and had never heard of it before you answered my "silly question". Sorry for having disturbed you.

[CJE]

Originally Posted by Johannes

Probably a typo error.

Thanks Johannes.

[Nick Hector]

I didn't mention a book. But you clearly got Wessling and Hagenah confused. And the INTERVIEW with Alfred Price is the best link between them that I could think of.

Unless of course the fault was indeed Dr. Prien's...

[CJE]

I have never made such a confusion, since I had never heard of Wessling hitherto!
And I still have no idea of which interview you talk about.

Discrepancies on victories between different sources, such as Jochen Prien, Tony Wood, DeZeng/Stankey and Don Caldwell, to name but a few, are numerous. Sometimes they are easy to understand and correct, sometimes they are not.

I still don't wee what is stupid in asking to people who know more than I do or else the utility of this forum should be questionable.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Chris

Just a small correction and defence of Prien's work.
If you read again your source book(s), you will find you have read Hagenah on one line but looked for his score on the next line which says Franz Beyer. Prien in both his excellent works state that Hagenah of 10./JG 3 scored his 7th victory on 19.12.1943 while Franz Beyer of Stab IV./JG 3 scored his 83rd some minutes later that same day.

Cheers
Stig

[Nick Hector]

For further reading on Wessling:

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/wessling.html

You'll even get to see his photo and a listing of his victories. I helped contribute to the site (have an acknowledgement on the title page)

With 83 victories, he deserves to be well known. In any case, he also has a page on wikipedia that you can look up and find if you can be bothered to spend a little time checking sources. Neither mentions whether he was shot down by a Mustang or a Thunderbolt or a Lighting or a Spitfire so if someone can answer that one for me, I'd appreciate it.

The interview where Hagenah mentions him can be found in:

Great aircraft of WWII
Messerschmitt 109

by Alfred Price [ISBN 978-1-86147-212-0] on Page 33.

[VtwinVince]

Wessling learned his Rottentaktik from my uncle with 9. JG3 over the Channel, along with Georg Schentke, Hans Stechmann and Eberhard von Boremsky. It was a staffel full of future 'Kanonen'.