Info on JG 4 pilot

[Hofstetter]

Hello, I have some paperwork belonging to Karl Hagemann JG 4 pilot,
The information I have attached under the Photo of his Ausweis is from the Kracker Archive.
His flugbuch does not mention these victories on this day, only his being shot down and bailing out.

Maybe a long shot, but I was hoping someone might have a JG 4 publication or such and possibly more information on Karl's victories (or supposed victories) that day.
Or maybe the Jager Blatt or Perry claims, referenced.
Thanks in advance for any information.

Regards
Greg

[kaki3152]

Gefr Karl Hagemann has a extensive description of his being shot down on Dec. 19,1944 in Mombeek's Sturmjager:JG-4 Vol/2.

[Heuser]

Hofstetter,

I was able to locate the crashplace of 682 319 some years ago.

Obviously he was shot down by P-47 of 83.FS, but there were no losses of any P-47-unit on 19.12.44 in this area.

Regards

Heuser

[Hofstetter]

Thanks for those replies gentlemen,
I look forward to obtaining Mombeek's Sturmjager:JG-4 Vol/2.

Does anyone know how I could find a copy of that Jager Blatt 1/2005 article ?

Heuser, that's amazing that you located the crash site, the world certainly seems a small place at times. Did you happen to get any pics of that crash site, I would be interested to know the exact place.

Regards
Greg

[Jim P.]

Note the source in the two Hagemann claims, the Reschke JG 301/302 book. The notation of the source suggests these originally came from Tony Wood's list. There is no reference to Mombeek's JG 4 history, so I suspect these will prove to have been entered in error when eventually cross referenced with the 'Jagdfliegerverbande' series.

19-Dec-44, Gefr., Karl, Hagemann, 6., II., JG 4, P-47, -, -, ., -, , yes, WR: JG 301/2 Lists, , ,
19-Dec-44, Gefr., Karl, Hagemann, 6., II., JG 4, P-47, -, -, ., -, , yes, WR: JG 301/2 Lists, , ,

Jim P.

[Heuser]

Hi Greg,

no problem - could you send me your e-mail adress via PM?

The information about the approximate crash location came from a guy who was involved in the search for Hagemann and found the canopy of his a/c.

Regarding P-47 losses:

The USAAF lost only four a/c over Germany on this day:

44-20483 and 44-20483 got obviously lost in combat with II./JG 11 over the Bulge, 42-29125 was shot down by Flak near Sankt Ingbert, NE of Saarbrücken and 42-25519 was also shot down by Flak near Mühlacker, NE of Pforzheim. Neither the RAF nor the French AF was operational in this area, so there is no matching loss for Hagemanns claim.

Regards

Heuser

[Hofstetter]

Originally Posted by Jim P.

Note the source in the two Hagemann claims, the Reschke JG 301/302 book. The notation of the source suggests these originally came from Tony Wood's list. There is no reference to Mombeek's JG 4 history, so I suspect these will prove to have been entered in error when eventually cross referenced with the 'Jagdfliegerverbande' series.

19-Dec-44, Gefr., Karl, Hagemann, 6., II., JG 4, P-47, -, -, ., -, , yes, WR: JG 301/2 Lists, , ,
19-Dec-44, Gefr., Karl, Hagemann, 6., II., JG 4, P-47, -, -, ., -, , yes, WR: JG 301/2 Lists, , ,

Jim P.

Hi Jim,
Thanks for that info.
I have the book, Jagdgeschwader 301/2 "Wilde Sau" In defense of the Reich.
but I can't find any reference to Hagemann in this.
I did notice another book on E-bay Chronik Jagdgeschwader 301/302 "Wilde Sau" would that be the book you refer to.

Regards
Greg

[Jim P.]

I believe that's the German edition of the same book.

[Hofstetter]

Originally Posted by Jim P.

I believe that's the German edition of the same book.

Hi Jim,
Your edition must be different to mine, there is no mention of Hagemann in the victory lists in my book, or in fact any victory of any pilot in a different Geschwader than 301/2.

There is nothing written in my copy for operations on 19th Dec. 44 either.

Seems a little odd to me that victories to a JG 4 pilot would be in a book on JG301, I guess it must have been corrected for subsequent editions.

Thanks anyway for that information, it does make one wonder how those two victories came to be recorded ?

Regards
Greg
P.S. Thanks Heuser, PM sent.

[Karsten]

Hi Greg,

I Have the Jägerblatt 1/ 2005, which article is interesting for you

Greetings Rüdiger