Questions concerning Me 262 Wn 112372 "Yellow 7"

[jinx007]

Hello gents

It's the first time for me on a forum like this so don't shoot me if I make some mistakes.
I'm looking for more info concerning the Me262 Wn 112372 "Yellow 7" of I/JG7 and this during the war and just after when it was tested by the British Air Ministry.

The questions I have are the following

It was captured in Fassberg in 1945, does somebody know by who (unit, Sqn....)?
Are there pictures of the aircraft when it was captured, if so where can I find them (books, internet, others....)
And the last on
Are there pictures of the aircraft when it was in use by the Air Ministry as Air Min 72, if so where can I find those?

Ok that's about it, I hope someone can help me with this matter.

Thanks to all who answer
Peter

[O.Menu]

Hi Peter!

W.Nr. photo proof for this airplane is unfortunately missing indeed it seems that it was 110800 when 112372 (AM52) would be actually Red2 found at Schleswig.

AM 72 is actually a Me 410

It was not yellow7 but white7.
It was not from I./JG7 but from Gefechtsverband Hogeback and it seems to have the vertical bar from the disbanded III./JG7 on the two best photos i know, and so would probably not not be 110800 after all since 110800 was Engler previous aircraft with 2./JG7...

It was not really captured at Fassberg but actually surrender there on 8th of May with 3 others Me 262 from ex JG7.
Black X was already there since 7th of May 14h50 according to P.Clostermann who was stationed on Fassberg airfield with his Tempest at this time.

It seems that 'white 7' never reached England after W.Shrader broke the front gear landing it to Lübeck and so it probably never got any AM number.

To see some photos the best is probably to have a look to the LEMB:
http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/forums/index.php

Cheers, Olivier

[Peter D Evans]

I can only agree with Olivier, AM72 was allocated to a Me410...

We have an extensive thread on the various Fassberg Me262's over on the LEMB - a direct link is reproduced below:

http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...?showtopic=517

...please nore that you will need to join the LEMB to be able to view this and other sections of the LEMB...

Kind regards,

Peter D Evans
LEMB moderator

[jinx007]

Ok guys,

thanks for the info, but how far can colour profiles be trusted then, the question I asked originated from a profile I saw on page 96 of the Mushroom publication Yellow Series book of the Me262A. It depict a colour profile of a Me262A1a with British insignia. Is this correct, or does it refer to a other aircraft????
After what I read in the previous answers, I dought it.... Did the Air Ministry testfly captured Me262's and are there pictures available of these aircraft.....

The URL below is a link to a scan of the profile from the Mushroom book

http://users.telenet.be/QRA/me262a1_72dpi.jpg

Friendly greetings
Peter Van Caneghem

[Peter D Evans]

On looking through the pages of the excellent "Messerschmitt Me262 - The Production Log" it appears that whoever put together the colour profile and caption has confused the two Me262's which were allocated AM51:

WNr.110800 - Me262A-1a coded "White 7" was indeed allocated AM51 but suffered a nose-gear failure with W/Cmdr Schrader at the controls. There is uncertainty as to whether this Me262 was repaired and flown at the RAE or that it was scrapped at Lubeck-Blankensee. A b/w image of "White 7" is included and features a standard JG7 emblem, like that pictured on the Mushroom profile.

WNR.112372 - Me262A-1a (possibly "Yellow 7"?) was also allocated AM51. It survives today and is displayed at the "Milestones of Flight" at the RAF Museum, Hendon. There is a b/w image of this aircraft at Schleswig and a "Red 2" can clearly be seen on the JG7 emblem.

There has also been much confusion on the surviving aircraft now at Hendon as it was displayed at the Aerospace Museum at Cosford as "Red X"... some further explanation can be found here:

http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...pic=17&hl=AM51

Kind regards,

Peter D Evans
LEMB moderator

[Dan O'Connell]

I'm not sure which aircraft the profile is depicting, but in my opinion, it is not 112372. As captured at Schleswig, a previous number (on the rear of the fuselage) had previously been painted over by the Germans. I'm not aware of any photos of it in previous service with JG 7 before going to NJG 11.

[O.Menu]

Mushroom profil clearly depict 'white 7', unknown W.Nr., surrendered at Fassberg by G.Engler, as it was seen at Lubeck after his nose gear collapse on landing with W.Schrader on board.

I say unknown W.NR. since seems doubtfull that it was 110800 since it seems strange that Engler's 110800 'yellow9' from I./JG7 could have been repainted as 'white7' from III./JG7 when Engler joined Gefechtsverband Hogeback.

From Dan O'Connell book it seems that AM51 was white7 id for the ferry flight from Fassberg to Lubeck... But when W.Shrader broke the front landing gear on landing then AM51 id was given to W.Nr 112372 'red2' already waiting at Schleswig?

[Dan O'Connell]

Engler's White 7 was definitely 110800. It was not uncommon for aircraft to have numbers changed, moving from Staffel, Gruppe, etc. The only thing that never changed was the STKZ and WNr.

[jinx007]

Ok then,
when I understand these answers correct I can trust the profile in regards to the color scheme and Sqn badge but the WNr has to be changed to 110800 en the number of the aircraft has to be White 7. If that is done it will be close to the original aircraft......

I must say, the people here on this forum really know what they are talking about. I have about 200 books on the German Luftwaffe and could not find much about this aircraft.... I just posted my first message on this forum and the matter is been cleared in 1 day, this really is remarkable, I think I bought the wrong books ;-))

Concerning the late war years and the Me 262 and He 162 what is to be recommended reading then????

Thanks for all the help

Peter Van Caneghem

Who is going to be a regular visitor from now on....

[O.Menu]

Hi Dan !

How could you be so sure about white7 W.Nr.? No offense there... i just would like to know if it's educated guess or 100% sure from documents since as far as i know W.Nr. is not visible on published photos...

Couldn't Engler have taken a different aircraft just for this last flight to surrender to Fassberg? And from photos it dont seems that any Kenn. has been overpainted on fuselage side...

Thanks, Olivier.