Some KGr 506 code+WNr pairs from 1941 - exact subtypes?

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

I purchased some time ago the war diary of KGr 506 in NARA microfilm form(accidentally BTW, I was after KGr 806). There is one interesting two-three page memorandum about technical problems which had occurred 18.-19.9.1941 in the Gruppe's Ju 88s.

There can be found following Kennzeichen / Werke Nummer pairs:

HL - WNr 1077
LL - WNr 1099
AL - WNr 1045
HL - WNr 1144
ML - WNr 1323

For some reason the war diary gives the plane code always as single (individual) letter, for example "C 1/506". Fortunately the memorandum gave codes as the last two letters as shown above. Anyone know the reason? In mid-September 1941 the second Staffel of the KGr 506 is given "2/906" (sic!) and later becomes as "2/506". Did the Staffeln have different unit codes?

I hope someone has some use for the data. I would like to know what are the exact subtypes of those WNr Ju 88s? Somewhere in the diary is mentioned that they had also Ju 88 D-2. Usually Küstenfliegergruppen had A-6s?

Cheers,
Kari

[edNorth]

Hello!

NO these were all Ju 88 A-4 (early pointed fin) VDM Jumo 211 F,G,H / D-1/C versions; (Maritime recce in todays parlance) as seen below;


HL - WNr 1077

1077 (not known)

LL - WNr 1099

1099 Ju 88 D-1 8H+HH 1.(F)/33 (Luftflotte 3)
OPS (F) missing (100%) unk location (PLQ 7151) 13.12.1942 (F Uffz. Rudolf Hirte, B Lt. Herbert Flemming, BF Uffz. Max Leitz and BS Obfgr. Helmut Lison missing)

AL - WNr 1045

1045 Ju 88 A-4 7./KG 30 (Ob.Befh.Süd)
OPS (F) destroyed by bombing (100%) at Tunis 02.12.1942

HL - WNr 1144

1144 Ju 88 S4+HL 3./KuFlGr 506 (Gen.d.Lw.b. Ob.d.M.) OPS (F) missing (100%) unk location 27.12.1941 (F Lt. Friedrich Stappenbeck, B Oblt.z.S. Wolfgang Scholz-Tautz, BF Uffz. Georg Lichtzow and BM Uffz. Paul Hupke missing)

ML - WNr 1323

1323 Ju 88 D-1/C S4+ML 3./KuFlGr 506 (Luftflotte 3)
Based at Westerland: OPS (F) crashed and burned (100%) [N of Blávand, Denmark] 09.03.1942 (crew uninjured) (rep as ´Blavandschuk´ in LWFLV losses 65v21.03.42 but also Ju 88 D1 1325 but nr amd 1323 in LWFLV losses h/01.04.42) [code, location and variant from other source]

Hope this satisfies;
cheers
ed

[bill norman]

Kari, Could you give me the NARA reference for the 506 KTB, Please? Is the KTB complete? How long did you have to wait after placing the order? How much did it cost you (if you don't mind my asking). With thanks in advance. BN

[Tony Jones]

Kari

In documents at the PRO, Kew I have recently found lists giving the verbandskennzeichen, c/n and then the new 3 digit tactical codes, i.e P3A, P3B etc., with a note to say that these later codes to be used in future on aircraft reports All aircraft status reports later only use the last letter of the 3 digit code, generally with the c/n. So the single letter you refer to would be the last letter of the 3 digit code and not the last letter of the vbkz. Looking at the relationship between the vbkz and the 3 digit codes shows that the last letter is not the same.

This could be the reason most lost reports only give the c/n, commnets on thsi possibilty welecom

This PRO data is daily intellingence intercepts

Tony

[edNorth]

Hello Toni;

What date is specified for that order (was it a order by whom or just a possible recommendation regarding the Transport units)....

ed

[Tony Jones]

Ed

Last Thursday I cleared 8/42 in a long day visit at the PRO but the info gets greater for each day so it won't be possible soon to clear a month in a visit. I think the order was given a few months before 8/42 that but as I take about 500 pictures per visit its possible I didn't bother to photo that one. But if the order was part of some coding lists then I would have taken a pic. If I come across this doc later I will contact you.

In one file in 8/42 there was a 3 page list of 3 digit codes and c/n and the aircraft stauus, typically "At Tatoi having new engine fitted", they all appear to be Ju 52 but I think the airfield wreck reports for Tunsia, Sicily, and Italy record such codes. I will look at these reports to see if any other than transport types have this type of code

Regards

Tony

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

First, thank you for all who have responded. Just back from four day journey so I haven't posted any replies.

In the mean time I received some addtional data (thanks!) and it seems the KGr 506 call-out letters I asked about are the individual letters from standard four-digit unit codes.

I base this on few things: the single letters for 3. Staffel do match to the two letter codes given in the technical report. Also there are same individual letters given for two staffel planes (in the example given by mr. Jones the "P3" stands for whole Gruppe?).

Also the KGr 506 KTB writes about a Ju 88 MIA "F / 2/506" and it turns out that the complete code for the plane was 8L+FK. That is 2/906 code, S4 would be for KGr 506. The 906 staffel seems to be attached to KGr 506 just before the transfer to Riga, September 1941.



For what it is worth. In the Finnish own flight (= German, Finnish & neutral) logs there sometimes do appear three letter codes - sometimes with the standard four-digit code - and IIRC they are sometimes marked as "kutsu" (=call sign). My impression has been that the three letter codes were (temporary?) radio call signs. Haven't seen anywhere any explanation and this is indeed a subject not covered anywhere that I know. I have not collected that data either nor do have any notes of them at the moment.


Regards,
Kari

[Seaplanes]

When Gruppe 506 converted to Ju 88 from February 1941, the Staffel 2./906 was part of the unit. On 15.2.1941 the Staffeln were distributed as follows:
Stab Gruppe 506 in Norderney
1./506 in Norderney under Gruppe 506 to commence conversion to Ju 88.
2./506 in Brest under Gruppe 406 with He 115.
3./506 in Stavanger under Gruppe 706 with He 115.
2./906 in Hörnum under Gruppe 506 with BV 138.

For practical reasons, the 2./906 was converted to Ju 88 along with 1./506 and 3./506 with 2./506 still with its He 115s in Brest.

On 27.09.1941 the following order was issued by Genst.Gen.Qu. 2.Abt. Nr. 7800/41:
1. With effect from 6.10.1941 the Kü.Fl.Staffel 2./906 (Ju 88) is renumbered 2./506, and the Kü.Fl.Staffel 2./506 (He 115) in 2./906.
At the same time the 3. Erg.Staffel (Ju 88)/Fl.Erg.Gr.See was renamed Ergänzungsstaffel/Kü.Fl.Gruppe 506.

It was customary to report only the individual aircraft letter of the Unit code in the KTBs. I.e. S4+AH was reported A/506 or AH/506.
The three letters tactical code was normally used only on transport aircraft, and to my knowledge never used in the Küstenflieger units.