Dornier supplied HE-111

[Dallas]

I think I found my answer. If you know different let me know.

My question was how many HE-111 P models were produced by NDW (Norddeutschen Dornier-Werken). It is my understanding production of the "P" model lasted from at least 1938/9 to 1940. It then being superseded by the "H" series.

What I found is "A total of 834 He 111P’s - the first He111 to be mass produced -
were built, mostly at the Heinkel Works in Rostock-Marienehe and in the neighbouring North
German Dornier Works in Wismar. Most of these were Heinkel He 111-P2’s." http://manuals.hobbico.com/rvl/80-4696.pdf

I also found of those P models produced, NDW produced 20 P1, and 288 P2. see: http://www.fliegerhorst-oldenburg.de/pdf/He%20111.pdf


Thanks!

[Stig Jarlevik]

Dallas

You also seems to belong to those who missed the Heinkel expert Volker Koos' Jet & Prop article about the He 111

This is what he says about the P-model production

NDW (Norddeutsche Dornier Werke, Wissmar): P-1: WNr 1361-1380; P-2: WNr 1381-1431, 1457-1499, 1520-1555, 1560-1650, 1668-1734
EHF (Ernst Heinkel Flugzeugwerke, Rostock): P-1: WNr 2393-2396, 2424-2504,
Note: WNr 2425-2427, 2445, 2447, 2449, 2451, 2453, 2455, 2477 were all modified on the production line to D-models); P-2: WNr 1985-1994, 2121-2169, 2217, 2505-2519, 2580-2694, 2791-3000. 3064-3128, 3353-3360. Note: WNr 3127-3128 were later modified to He 111 U.

Cheers
Stig

[Graham Boak]

Was that intended to be He 111D? If so, this appear to be a very odd event. The D series had a different fuselage, wing and engines to the P-series, and was outdated. Clearly the actual airframes would not have been modified on the line, but the serials allocated to different lines.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Ah yes Graham

Unfortunately you are stuck with the old '1970s' view of the Heinkel 111.
William Green said so even back in 1998 that the D-0 and D-1 model was produced in 1937. That was an invention made in Germany simply because no one knew what the D-model was and there simply was a need for 'something' to exist between the B, C and E models.
We usually put all the blame on Bill Green which is not entirely fair, since the invention was most certainly made in Germany.

According to Volker Koos, the only documented proof of anything called Heinkel 111 D was 30 P-1 aircraft with increased radio equipment to serve as 'leadership aircraft' (Führungsflugzeug). They were developed from the He 111 V14 but I believe they were little or not used in their intended capacity.

The article by Volker is very short and the He 111 D is given seven short lines so I have not very much more to say about it.
The WNr (beside those I already mentioned) were 2101-2120.

Perhaps, what is worse, neither Manfred Griehl nor the Classic book 'mafia' were interested in listen and learn anything, which means that the He 111 book by Classic for example is very unreliable!!

Cheers
Stig

[Graham Boak]

Thank you for the clarification. That would indeed make more sense in production terms, but at the expense of placing not only the P designation but also the D out of the natural order of such things.

In the limited information available, is there perhaps any hint that the D was being re-used after cancellation of some earlier projected variant? That would at least make some sense of the sequence.

The matter having arisen, is there any known justification for the use of P?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Graham

Unfortunately I don't know the answer to your questions. It is possible there was an earlier projected (read 1937) D-version. I don't know that. Volker Koos makes no mentioning of it, and reading for example Manfred Griehl, I get the impression he mix things up and in fact describe the two D-versions as one and the same type, but not quite understanding that.

Neither do I know why Heinkel (RLM) jumped to P and left many other letters unused.

Finally the U designation letter seems to have been Heinkel's own and not RLM's.

As someone who has no access to original documentation, but only second hand sources, I have to chose what to believe and not to believe. Volker Koos has always impressed me by being very accurate and I have no reason to doubt him when he tries to correct past mistakes.

Cheers
Stig

[Dallas]

Thanks for the update! Any way to find out what unit a specific werk nr. got assigned to? I see where 1553 may have been lost as a training a/c or in Russia. Just wondered what unit got the bird initially?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Dallas

We have some real experts on losses here at TOCH (not me )
I suggest you ask for specific details in seperate e-mails

Cheers
Stig

[Dallas]

Found this site. It is of an HE-111 p2 Werk Nr. 1526. Only 27 a/c nrs away from 1553. Same mfr. NDW.

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/in...howtopic=33650

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

In the Übersichtsliste der Änderungsanweisungen for the He 111 the model D is mentioned for WNr. 2451, 2453, 2455, 2457. It is dated 01-Apr-1942. There are losses of D models as well.

Regrads,
Norbert