HE177 gunners V Coastal Command Liberator Gunners

[Jon]

Fascinating article in the September (out now) edition of Airplane Magazine.
Page 74 describes how on November 21st 1943, 25 HE177's of 11./KG40 took off to attack the Allied convoy SL139/MKS 30.

During the attack a Coastal Command Liberator from 224 Squadron arrived on an Anti U Boat patrol and, not only interupted the attack but actually took on the bombers with its own defensive guns apparantly damaging several, forcing them to leave the fight for home. The Luftwaffe gunners obviously returned fire but apparantly scored no hits at all ???

Were any of the crews injured or killed during this fight and does anyone have further details to this battle of the giants ?

Did this sort of thing happen before or after, or was it a one off ?

[Brian Bines]

From NVM's it appears the crew of Oblt von Berg (5/40)were reported missing with two bodies later recovered , while five of the crew of Ofw. Freyer (4/40) were killed in a crash at St. Christoly,
Regards
brian

[Jon]

Thanks Brian.
Do you know if the losses can be put down to the B24 gunners, Ship AA fire or the poor reliability of the HE177.
Sorry for the request that is probably impossible to answer but i am trying to collate information on Air Gunner kills and claims.

[Brian Bines]

Sorry Jon no indication on my copies of NVM which show Feindflug for both aircraft. The Griehl/Dressel book shows 'Einsatzverlust' for 535443 F8+BN von Berg's aircraft and 'Absturz' for Freyer's 535683 .

[Chris Goss]

I can confirm what has been said above. I mention the attack in 'Sea Eagles 2'-nobody saw the B-24 (K/224 Sqn, Fg Off Sutherland) who claimed 2 damaged 1630-1745 hrs. I have the Luftwaffe report for the mission which says:
20 aircraft attacked 1700-1730 hrs with 40 Hs 293 from between 400 & 600m.
1 8000 BRT ship hit and set on fire, 1 1000 BRT ship probably sunk
1 loss due to enemy action (missing)
1 He 177 crashed at Bressuiere, crew baled out unwoundde
1 He 177 crashed 15 km SW Landes de Bussac, crew killed

No mention made of B-24 though!

[RT]

Is it a good result, I mean from the point of view of the Luftwaffe, 40 Hs293 launched for 2/3 hits, without aerial opposition ????

I note also that they hv sometimes/ maybe more often/ Fl.ing. a-board from E.stelle ¨Travemünde, to manage the weapon I guess, they were reported as bord-Schütze...

remi

[Jon]

Interesting stuff.
You would have thought a B24 trading blows with 25 HE177 would have got at least a mention in the raid report !!
Also i find it hard to believe no Luftwaffe gunners scored any hits on something the size of a Liberator, especially when you consider the high level of marksmanship Luftwaffe gunners usually displayed.
What a fascinating encounter though ....

[Jon]

Hello Remi

I agree it was a poor result from the point of view of the Luftwaffe.
Worth getting the September magazine for this article alone and certainly a good job the HE177 never achieved the same as the B17 or Lancaster in bomber status...especially for London and other UK cities.

[Juha]

Hello
there might be more info on this attack in the old Profile on He 177 but I don't have now time to check that. But according to Rohwer & Hummelchen's Chronology of the War at Sea 1939 - 1945 (1992) He 177s sunk the freighter Marsa (4405 tons) and damaged Delius (6055 tons). Greater successes were thwarted by the escorts' AA fire.

HTH
Juha

[Brian Bines]

'Profile' no 234 on the He 177 does cover the attack of 21-11-43 including a report from the Master of the Marsu Capt. Buckle. he described how the engine of one Heinkel burst into flames during the attack There is also mention of the part played by the Liberator damaging one Heinkel and engaging two more.