RAF First Line to Second Line Aircraft Colours

[Larry]

I'm sure I have asked this but in the RAF during WW2 many aircraft were
relegated to second line units and some had charmed lives and lived on in training units till 1945. However, if for example, a Hurricane in typical Battle of Britain 'green and brown' colours was sent to a Pilots Advanced Flying Unit or Operational Training Unit in the mid war period onwards and remained in flying condition, would the aircraft we repainted in the later 'green and grey' camo?

I get the impression aircraft were not repainted unless undergoing serious repairs and that the CO would not care as long as he kept up his flying training programme? So aircraft could look quite scruffy.

[Buckeye30]

Hi Larry. The change to green-grey ( Aug.1941) was a result of operations over the Channel & Europe so didn't affect non-operational flights over the UK; the retired Mk.IIs and a few Mk.Is kept the older colours unless a complete re-paint was necessary which I imagine was rare. Most of the later Mk.Vs relegated were in the green-grey Day Fighter Scheme.

Examples are P7963 with an OTU mid-1942, P7882 with ECFS then OTU into 1944, P7290 ( AFDU) late 1943 (all Mk.IIs Dark Green/Dark Earth/Sky with Sky spinners & tail bands. There are photos showing a Sky Blue was used for these when it was more available (same applies to Hurricanes).
As late as Oct. 1944 an Air Publication specified green-brown ( but yellow unders) for other (dedicated) trainers like twin-engined.

Regards
Nick

[Larry]

Nick, most interesting, much as I thought but would a Hurricane with a traning unit also have to have a yellow underside by 1944?

[Buckeye30]

Larry; the yellow areas were for Flying Training Command aircraft (like Oxfords and Harvards); the operational training of aircrew was by OTUs, HCUs etc within the operational Commands (ie Fighter Command here) and they were to be in their colours (ie Hurricanes, Spitfires, Tomahawks etc.)......


(10/7/41): AMO A.513 " the undersurfaces of aircraft, except fighter training aircraft, are to be coloured yellow" the latter were specified Sky Type "S" or Black. Yellow was restricted to FTC as these OTUs etc. were 2nd line and could be scheduled for operations ( like the big bomber raids). At this time the top colour scheme was TLS Dark Earth/Dark Green.

Regards
Nick

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[Franek Grabowski]

I understand that the policy was to repaint fighters of 'southern' groups immediately, and 'northern' groups time, resources and paint permitting. I cannot recall exact phrasing of the order, though. This applied to OTU aircraft, perhaps a low priority, but they were repainted as well. Photos of OTU aircraft are rare, often poor quality, and colour ones are exceptional. The well known colour photo of P7882 shows the aircraft in DFS, other ones are in naval colours of TSS. There is some discoloration due to lighting conditions.
I would expect to have all aircraft repainted by mid 1942.
The open question are colours of AACC aircraft like P-40s or P-51s.

[Buckeye30]

Thanks Franek. I wonder why 2 of them would be in sea colours ? In another photo ( from the other side) they also all seem to have yellow leading edges as in the DFS.


Nick

[Franek Grabowski]

I have read a lengthy explanation, but I cannot recall where. Apparently Hurricane I Z4791 and Spitfire IIa P792 were involved in some naval related training, could be carrier deck landings, etc.
I think this picture shall help.

AMO A.513/41: "Aircraft in miscellaneous units.-Aircraft in operational training units, air fighting development units. fighter interception unit, special duty flights, fighter experimental establishment, No. 2 School of Army Co-operation and the Central Gunnery School, are to conform to the normal colour scheme for the aircraft role"
AMO A.664/42: "Aircraft in operational training units, air fighting development units, Fighter Interception Unit, No. 2 School of Army Co-operation, the Central Gunnery School, meteorological flights, heavy glider conversion units and other special units of operational training unit category are to conform to the normal operational colour scheme for the role of the aircraft. Heavy types of operational aircraft used for advance training purposes may also conform to the normal operational scheme for the role of the aircraft."

[Buckeye30]

P7926 may have been re-painted at Morris Motors where it was repaired (6-6-42) after an accident and just before going to the ECFS; Z4791 wasn't converted to a Sea Hurricane, presumably a standard Mk.I but re-painted.
If it was intended to send them anywhere near a carrier the Navy wouldn't want them in a land scheme.
Incidentally just been to the the Shuttleworth Museum and their Sea Hurricane Ib has yellow leading edge stripes on the TSS (plus yellow fin).

Nick

[Franek Grabowski]

Well, I cannot remember the exact story, but I recall that it was thoroughly explained why those aircraft were in FAA colours.

As for FAA markings, sorry, I have no idea.
That said, this proves beyond any doubt that RAF colours are not as boring as widely believed, and there are many stunning finds in front of us.