He177 attacks Italy 26 November 1943

[keith A]

332 (French) Wing attacked a formation of He177 (identified as Fw200) and claimed two destroyed and three damaged. Luftwaffe losses on this date?

regards

Kieth

[Jim P.]

A bad day.

He 177A-3, 535367, Horn, Hptm. Arthur, , II., 4., KG 40, , F8+KM, GP+WQ, , 26-Nov-43, MIA with crew during sortie against convoy KMF 26 off the Algerian coast., WNr. 5367 per loss., Lfl.3/Eins.Süd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23; Goss, Sea Eagles, II, p.154; Smith/Creek, He 177 Greif, P.198, , bei Cape Bougie, 100%, F, B Fw. Walter Schmidt, Bf Fw. Heinz Brunner, Bm Uffz. Hermann Berger, Bs Ogefr. Georg Dolp & 2.Bs Uffz. Johannes Sansalla, , Arado Flzg.Werke Brandenburg/Neuendorf

He 177A-3, 535369, Schmidt, Hptm. Egon, , II., 4., KG 40, , F8+MM, GP+WS, , 26-Nov-43, Stkp. MIA with crew during sortie against convoy KMF 26 off the Algerian coast., WNr. 5369 per loss., Lfl.3/Eins.Süd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23; Goss, Sea Eagles, II, p.154; Smith/Creek, He 177 Greif, P.198, , bei Cape Bougie, 100%, F, B Uffz. Walter Schnirsch, Bf Ofw. Hans Seeboth, Bm Ofw. Theodor Kuhlmann, Bs Uffz. Nikolaus Geestmann & 2.Bs Uffz. Georg Bildat, , Arado Flzg.Werke Brandenburg/Neuendorf

He 177A-3, 535371, n.n., , II., , KG 40, , , GP+WU, , 26-Nov-43, Notlandung due to enemy fire. Bm KIA, Bs WIA., WNr. 5371 per loss., Lfl.3/Eins.Süd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23; Goss, Sea Eagles, II, p.154; Smith/Creek, He 177 Greif, p.198, , bei Fl.Pl. Montpelier, 100%, F, Bm Fw. Willi Dullin & Bs Fw. Max Nagel, , Arado Flzg.Werke Brandenburg/Neuendorf

He 177A-3, 535444, Noll, Oblt. Fritz, , II., 6., KG 40, , F8+EP, GJ+RF, , 26-Nov-43, MIA with crew during sortie against convoy KMF 26 off the Algerian coast., WNr. 5444 per loss., Lfl.3/Eins.Süd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23; Goss, Sea Eagles, II, p.154; Smith/Creek, He 177 Greif, p.198, , bei Cape Bougie, 100%, F, B Ogefr. Heinz Bertram, Bf Uffz. Clemens Schepphors, Bm Ofw. Hans Probst, Bs Ogefr. Adolf Träger & 2.Bs Ogefr. Erich Ruppenstein, , Arado Flzg.Werke Brandenburg/Neuendorf

He 177A-3, 535553, Judemann, Ofw. Georg, , II., , KG 40, , , NN+QT, , 26-Nov-43, Killed in crash. B, Bf & Bm also killed. Bs & 2.Bs injured. Aircraft caught fire and burned., WNr. 5553 per loss., Lfl.3/Eins.Süd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23; Goss, Sea Eagles, II, p.154; Smith/Creek, He 177 Greif, p.199, , Fl.Pl. Merignac, 100%, F, B Uffz. Rudolf Wildt, Bf Ofw. Johann Böse, Bm Fw. Werner Warschefski, Bs Ogefr. Wilhelm Großefengels? & 2.Bs Fl.St.Ing. Erich Warnecke, , Arado Flzg.Werke Brandenburg/Neuendorf

He 177A-3, 535556, Naaf, Fw. Alfred, , II., , KG 40, , , NN+QW, , 26-Nov-43, Injured in Notlandung due to engine fire. Bm killed, rest injured. Aircraft burned on ground., WNr. 5556 per loss., Lfl.3/Eins.Süd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23; Goss, Sea Eagles, II, p.154; Smith/Creek, He 177 Greif, p.199, , bei Bordeaux, 100%, F, B Uffz. Gerhard Drews, Bf Uffz. Georg Wagenhuber, Bm Fw. Alfred Hoffmann, Bs Ogefr. Hans Kauf & 2.Bs Fl.St.Ing. Hans Trenler?, , Arado Flzg.Werke Brandenburg/Neuendorf

He 177A-3, 535566, Strube, Oblt. Gerhard, , II., 4., KG 40, , F8+IM, , , 26-Nov-43, MIA with crew during sortie against convoy KMF 26 off the Algerian coast., WNr. 5566 per loss., Lfl.3/Eins.Süd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23; Goss, Sea Eagles, II, p.154; Smith/Creek, He 177 Greif, p.199, , bei Cape Bougie, 100%, F, B Uffz. Otto Bollack, Bf Fw. Josef Frühbis, Bm Fw. Ernst Ebel, Bs Uffz. Hubert Bruns & 2.Bs Uffz. Günther Haaris, , Arado Flzg.Werke Brandenburg/Neuendorf

He 177A-3, 535570, n.n., , III., 8., KG 40, , , , , 26-Nov-43, Technical failure. Collision during take-off with W 34 WNr. 1503., , Lw.Bfh.Mitte/Polen, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/777, Flzg.-Unfälle bei Schulen usw., p.86; Smith/Creek, He 177 Greif, p.199, , Fl.Pl. Insterburg, 15%, H, , , Arado Flzg.Werke Brandenburg/Neuendorf

He 177A-3, 535677, MONS, Major Rudolf, , II., Stab II., KG 40, weiße D, F8+DM, , , 26-Nov-43, Gr.Kdr. MIA with crew during sortie against convoy KMF 26 off the Algerian coast., RK. WNr. 5677 per loss. Troop carrier Rohna sunk in this action, 1,000+ US soldiers lost., Lfl.3/Eins.Süd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23; Goss, Sea Eagles, II, p.154; Griehl, He 177; Profile No. 234, He 177 'Greif', photo; Green, WTR, Kaiser, Die Ritterkreuzträger der Kampfflieger, V.2, p.42-43; Smith/Creek, He 177 Greif, p.199, bei Cape Bougie, 100%, F, B Uffz. Karl Enz, Bf Fw. Heinrich van Oopen, Bm Fw. Walter Laib, Bs Ogefr. Dietrich Tschöpe & 2.Bs Uffz. Uffz. Heinz Niele, , Arado Flzg.Werke Brandenburg/Neuendorf

He 177A-3, 535684, Nuß, Hptm. Alfred, , II., 6., KG 40, , F8+BP, , , 26-Nov-43, MIA with crew during sortie against convoy KMF 26 off the Algerian coast., WNr. 5684 per loss., Lfl.3/Eins.Süd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23; Goss, Sea Eagles, II, p.154; Griehl, He 177; Profile No. 234, He 177 'Greif', photo, Smith/Creek, He 177 Greif, p.199, nordöstlich Cap Finisterre, 100%, F, B Uffz. Heinz Ammermann, Bf Ofw. Herbert Krippenstabel, Bm Stfw. Kurt Vetter, Bs Uffz. Richard Trings & 2.Bs Uffz. Willi Bartsch, , Arado Flzg.Werke Brandenburg/Neuendorf

[Chris Goss]

I have this:

It was now that the Allied aircraft intervened. Spitfires of Groupe de Chasse I/7 claimed a mix of aircraft, misidentifying the He 177s for Fw 200s and even Dornier Do 217s with Sous/Lt Charles Leroy, Lt Roger Perrier, Lt Guy Bouttier and Lt Raoul Rebière claiming four Fw 200/Do 217 destroyed, Capitaine (Cne) Michael Madon claiming a Fw 200 probable, Lt Roger Perrier and Sous/Lt Charles Leroy claiming a Do 217 probable and finally Cne Pierre Simard, Cne Michael Dorance, Cne Micheal Madon, Sgt Chef Fargeu, Sous/Lt Maurice Tallent and Lt Raoul Rebière claiming five He 177s/Fw 200s/Do 217s damaged. Beaufighters of 153 Sqn claimed three destroyed and two damaged

[Stig Jarlevik]

Chris

You are a bit at odds with MAW 4 here.
According to Shores et al the French claimed 4 -2 - 5 in this combat.

Also 153 Sq is listed as claiming 2 - 0 - 3 (the latter 3 by Boulton/Hoile so I assume you have one of their damaged as confirmed?)

With regard to the six French pilots claiming five damaged aircraft, which two shared one claim?

Finally is it known which of the pilots who actually managed to identify his damaged aircraft as a He 177?

It also seems like the USAAF was involved since 414NFS claimed one He 177 while two unidentified P-39 pilots from 347FS/350FG made claims for one He 177 probable and another as damaged.

A bit odd that the French were so wide off the mark with regard to the identity of their claims.....

Cheers
Stig

[Chris Goss]

You are correct:

A Beaufighter of 414th Night Fighter Sqn flown by 2/Lt Frank Clark also claimed to have destroyed another He 177 whilst P-39s of 347th Fighter Sqn/350th Fighter Group claimed to have damaged another.

Info on French/American came from late Chris Ehrengardt and late Frank Olynyk.

As to your other questions, I am afraid I cannot answer them.

[keith A]

This is a tricky one. I am using "Pilotes Francais sur L'Afrique du Nord et La Corse", by the Decot brothers, which reprints the combat reports of several pilots who were engaged. Four bombers are claimed destroyed.

Ltt Raoul Rebiere claimed a Do217 destroyed and another probable, Ltt Roger Perrier claims a He177, Cne Michel Dorance (flying a Spitfire V) damaged a He177. Sgt Chef Leroy claimed another He177 destroyed, Ltt Madon damages two He177s (one shared with Ltt Simard) but mentions seeing what appears to be one of these fall into the sea. Other sources add several more claimants. There's no mention of Ltt Guy Bouchier but it's possible his report is missing. This site (among others)confirms the claim http://www.munier-pilote-1940.fr/AUTRES-PILOTES.htm

regards

Keith

[Chris Goss]

There were no Do 217s lost and in any case KG 100 was in the process of moving north-west

[keith A]

Of course the He177 was a twin-engine heavy bomber. The claims for Do217 were misidentifies. The twin tail of the Do217 was less obvious from range. The French also identified the He111 among their opponents. None of the French claims state (even when attacking "Fw200") other than damage to the wing engine... (usually the right).

regards

Keith