Battle P6616 1 FTS

[Chris Goss]

The above came off worse when it bumped into a Bf 110 on 21 Jul 40-was it written off when it crash-landed near Shrewton?

[Stig Jarlevik]

It seems 1 FTS is not mentioned on its AM 78 form (mind you I have no copy of it) but quoting from Halley's
P1000 - P9999 Air Britain's booklet

It states: 15 EFTS/Hucknell/16PFTS to 3312M 8.42

Cheers
Stig

[Chris Goss]

It would appear that it was not written off then but was being flown by the Advanced Training Sqn of 1 FTS, RAF Netheravon when shot up by the 4.(F)/14 Bf 110

[Luc Vervoort]

Hi,

See https://martinaviationpages.com/21-july-1940/

Best regards

Luc

[Stig Jarlevik]

Martin gives no serial number on his site, so how do you Chris know it was P6616?

Cheers
Stig

[Chris Goss]

Casualty Card and Wray’s logbook entry according to him

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hallo again Chris

Geoffrey Sinclair pointed me to the Air Britain book the Battle File by Sidney Shail (thanks Geoffrey)

He is much more detailed regarding P6616 and nowhere does he list P6616 with No 1 FTS based at Netheravon

At the time of your incident it was with 15 EFTS training Polish pilots. It seems the aircraft followed this Polish
trail, since it was transferred to Hucknall on 7 Nov 1940 where No 1 (Polish) FTS was formed in Jan 1941.

There is nothing on its AM 78 which indicates that P6616 ever was with 1 FTS at Netheravon.
So it is quite mystery, since the AM 78 forms are quite accurate with regard to individual aircraft's movements

It would be interesting to see that casualty card.....

Cheers
Stig

[Chris Goss]

Cas Cards I am afraid are not for release by the AHB and as John Wray is no longer with us I wonder what happened to his logbook

[Martin Gleeson]

I have the F.78 history card for P6616. It confirms what Stig has written above. The card has no indication of damage during 1940. P6616 was definitely flying with 16 (P) FTS from the second half of 1941.

The reference to the crash location at ‘Shrewton’ puzzled me at first when set against John Wray’s recollection of the incident as recorded in ‘THE OTHER FEW’. He noted there that he crash-landed the Battle ‘near Stockbridge’, but his telling of the event could have been many years later. 1 FTS was based at Netheravon at this time, but the unit appeared to use Shrewton as a satellite landing ground. There are many mentions of Shrewton in ‘THE BATTLE FILE’ in connection with 1 FTS accidents during 1940-1941 just in the P6600s and P6700s serial ranges.

The use of the serial P6616 for this incident is either a typo, or more likely in my opinion, an omission of the 1 FTS service from the F.78 (not unknown to happen). P6616 was the very first production Battle (T) trainer and 1 FTS certainly had some of these by July 1940.

Chris, Can you tell us please if the references to P6616, I FTS and Shrewton are in the Casualty Card or the John Wray logbook ? I have to admit I was unaware of these ‘Casualty Cards’ at AHB. Are they similar to the AIR 81 files or literally a card like the F.1180/F.1183s ? Are they very detailed and personnel related only ? Finally, do they have an AIR number ?

Thanks for starting a very interesting thread.

Martin Gleeson.

https://martinaviationpages.com/

[Chris Goss]

John Wray in his letter to me states Shrewton not Stockbridge. I will quote it over weekend. As to Cas Cards, they are held by AHB not NA and contain full personnel details including NOK. They also have aircraft details and other crew. Up to mid 1942 they were cardex , after that flimsy. They are filed by name and by date