Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12th June 2026, 00:48
sergey sergey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 230
sergey is on a distinguished road
B-24 missions on August 21, 1942.

Colleagues. I have information that on the evening of August 21, 1942, B-24 bombers, six from the RAF and ten from the USAAF, attacked an enemy convoy off the coast of Crete. Could you please tell me which squadrons they belonged to and whether one American bomber was actually shot down by a German fighter in this battle?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12th June 2026, 02:13
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 3,001
Laurent Rizzotti will become famous soon enough
Re: B-24 missions on August 21, 1942.

This is described in MAW2 page 644: "11 B-24Ds from 344th and 345th BS, 98th BG attacked between 1920 and 1935 hrs a convoy of "3 merchants" SW Crete, claiming four hits, two probale hits and 11 near misses, resulting in two ships probably sunk. 3 fighters intercepted them and the B-24D 41-11763 of 345th BS that was straggling was shot down off Gavdos Island (2 POW, 7 MIA). Pvt Tom F Hattaway, the rear gunner of 41-11806 of 345th BS, claimed a German fighter (Bf 109 or 110) probably shot down.

Two pilots of III./ZG 26 (a Bf 110 unit) claimed B-24s, Uffz Fritz Lauff at 1820 hrs (German time) and Obfw Walter Weiss at 1830 hrs SW Gavdos. No German aircraft was lost according to the book.

As for the convoy target, I think it was the "sportivo" convoy. The Kriegsmarine Naval Staff KTB reports only this convot attacked in the area (the Italian tanker Pozarica was torpedoed that day S of Corfu by Malta-based RAF aircraft). The ships suffered no damage.
According to the links below it was composed of Italian cargos Sportivo and Davide Bianchi and tanker Stige, escorted by four warships Turbine, Lince, Hermes and S 41. S 41 was sunk in November 1941 in Channel so that part is false. Hermes, a former Greek destroyer taken over by the Germans, could have been there but in the above cited KTB is reported to have assisted U-83 on the 18th and is not cited on the 21st.

The onlise story of some of the ships involved, but with few details:
https://conlapelleappesaaunchiodo.bl...5/turbine.html (listing the ship discussed above)
https://conlapelleappesaaunchiodo.bl.../sportivo.html (same ship list)
https://conlapelleappesaaunchiodo.bl.../09/lince.html (no mention of this convoy)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12th June 2026, 02:40
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 3,001
Laurent Rizzotti will become famous soon enough
Re: B-24 missions on August 21, 1942.

Nothing to be add from the official history of Italian Navy vol 7 (covering convoys to North Africa in 1941-1942). This conovy is not in the narrative and the tables at the end of the book give the same composition of escort as above (including S-41) but does not list the tanker Stige (maybe becasue it was a naval unit and not a merchant one). No details about air attacks, only that they did no damage. The convoy reached Suda in the morning of 22nd and Piraeus the next day.

The RAF part of the raid was flown by 159 Sqn RAF (see AIR 27/1060/1) that dispatched 9 B-24s, only six reaching the convy and bombing it without claiming any hit. The saw 'a Ju 88 and a Breda" but were not intercepted. Attack was reported to be between 1817 and 1832 hrs, so one hour before the US bombers if they used the same time zone.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12th June 2026, 09:04
AndreasB's Avatar
AndreasB AndreasB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 491
AndreasB is on a distinguished road
Re: B-24 missions on August 21, 1942.

There were two groups of three ships going leaving from Tobruk on 20 August.

1) Stige and Davide Bianchi, left Tobruk 1800 for Piraeus
2) Sportivo left 1900 for Suda

The vessels had arrived in Tobruk a few days before and had been discharged with some difficulties. The Italian history states that they were formed into a single convoy off Tobruk on 21 August at 0900 with the escorts as mentioned being Turbine as lead, Lince, ZG3 and S-41. So this is likely where the error occurred. The OH states it was attacked from the air without result.

Quote:
Il convoglio si forma, con l'aggiunta della Cist Stige e sotto la guida del ct Turbine alle 09.00 del 21 al largo di Tobruk; è oggetto di attacchi senza esito, da pare di aerei. Sosta a Suda nella mattinata del 22 per il rifornimento delle siluranti.
Convoy formed, with the addition of tanker Stige under the lead of DD Turbine at 0900 on 21 off Tobruk. Subjected to air attacks without results. Overnight in Suda morning of 22 to rearm with torpedoes.

Regarding the escorts.
1) S-41 as noted cannot be right. It is unlikely to be an error in the boat's number too, as 3. S-Flotille was based in Sicily in the second half of August with the exception of S-33 and S55 in Suda, but the Suda group reports no tasks at the end of August.
2) 6. R-Flotille does not report such an escort task (they had R-14 on strength).
3) ZG-3 Hermes (renamed 21 August 1942) reports being in port in Salamis on 20-23 August, so again cannot have been part of the escort.

The whole of the Italian navy war diary looks quite questionable in relation to this.

Some background on the Turbine-class (won't help with this question): https://rommelsriposte.com/2025/03/2...ckers-turbine/

All the best

Last edited by AndreasB; 12th June 2026 at 12:09.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12th June 2026, 11:11
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 3,001
Laurent Rizzotti will become famous soon enough
Re: B-24 missions on August 21, 1942.

An interesting point on the 159 Sqn ORB is that the British crew reported the convoy as 2 merchant vessels, one tanker and one escort (probably a destroyer), so possibly onluy Turbine was actually present when the attack(s) took place.

The lack of details in Italian documents is a pity, because I would like to know if there were two attacks one hour apart or if there was only one, Allied units using two different time zones.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12th June 2026, 11:52
AndreasB's Avatar
AndreasB AndreasB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 491
AndreasB is on a distinguished road
Re: B-24 missions on August 21, 1942.

Here are some of the relevant ULTRA intercepts.

Afraid I cannot add pictures easily, so the PDF will have to do.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/2up3u...1n7egnw85&dl=0

All the best

Andreas
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12th June 2026, 11:54
AndreasB's Avatar
AndreasB AndreasB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 491
AndreasB is on a distinguished road
Re: B-24 missions on August 21, 1942.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti View Post
An interesting point on the 159 Sqn ORB is that the British crew reported the convoy as 2 merchant vessels, one tanker and one escort (probably a destroyer), so possibly onluy Turbine was actually present when the attack(s) took place.

The lack of details in Italian documents is a pity, because I would like to know if there were two attacks one hour apart or if there was only one, Allied units using two different time zones.
If anyone holds the logbooks of Turbine, that would probably be the only way to clear it up now.

All the best

Andreas
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12th June 2026, 12:22
sergey sergey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 230
sergey is on a distinguished road
Re: B-24 missions on August 21, 1942.

Thank you, colleagues.
As far as I know, the Alberto Fassio-Pugliola convoy from Piraeus to Tobruk was attacked. In the works of the Italian researcher Lorenzo Colombo, I saw mention of a single attack by 16 Liberators of the RAF and USAAF.
A couple more questions. Were the 158 and 160 RAF squadrons, which operated B-24s, one or two units?
Were the aircraft for the 98th BG specially ferried to the Middle East from the US, or were they assigned the same B-24s that had arrived there in June?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12th June 2026, 12:57
AndreasB's Avatar
AndreasB AndreasB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 491
AndreasB is on a distinguished road
Re: B-24 missions on August 21, 1942.

Based on the Italian OH, Pugliola came with Kreta from Piraeus at 09.20 20 August, Kreta was re-routed to Suda at 14.45 21 August, and Pugliola joined Fassio with escort Tp Lupo (coming from Suda, which was a fuel hub at this point) and the 80th MZ Flotilla at 17.35 21 August off Crete. None of the two groups reported an air attack. I can check with Lorenzo, but suppose this maybe an error.

As for the British bombers, earlier in July all the heavies operated from Aqir in Palestine. They were probably serviced by mixed personnel, but would need to look into that more.

All the best

Andreas
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12th June 2026, 13:33
JohanSWE JohanSWE is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sweden
Posts: 81
JohanSWE is on a distinguished road
Re: B-24 missions on August 21, 1942.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergey View Post
Thank you, colleagues.
As far as I know, the Alberto Fassio-Pugliola convoy from Piraeus to Tobruk was attacked. In the works of the Italian researcher Lorenzo Colombo, I saw mention of a single attack by 16 Liberators of the RAF and USAAF.
A couple more questions. Were the 158 and 160 RAF squadrons, which operated B-24s, one or two units?
Were the aircraft for the 98th BG specially ferried to the Middle East from the US, or were they assigned the same B-24s that had arrived there in June?

The RAF no 158 & 160 squadron operated under the no 205 Group,. The 98BG and 1 Provisional Bomb Group (later 376BG) was under British command, MAC.
Two squadron of the 98BG arrived in early August. 343BS and 344BS I think. Flown by the crew them self. Not air force ferry command (later ATC). 415BS and 345BS arrived few weeks later in August.
Need to double check in which order the bomb squadrons of the 98BG arrived Palestine.


/JohanSWE
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942 sergey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 14 15th May 2026 12:58
Queries re. three Bomber Command losses 31 July-1 August 1942 Theo Boiten Allied and Soviet Air Forces 2 5th April 2026 21:50
Flt Sgt S C Cosburn & Flt Lt E L Neal, 401 Sqn Chris Goss Allied and Soviet Air Forces 3 23rd August 2025 08:22
FW190 9+ August 19, 1942 near Dieppe aerodieppe Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 22nd January 2025 13:04
1435 squadron flight commanders in 1942 keith A Allied and Soviet Air Forces 1 12th November 2024 15:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net