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  #1  
Old 11th January 2007, 04:57
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Post 8th May 45 Shoot downs by Luftwaffe

Hi,

From the LEMB website, I read that a few light reconnaisance a/c ( Don't know if RAF or USAAF) were shot down by Luftwaffe fighters on the 9th, 10th 11th of May 1945.

Has anyone ever heard of any of these losses with RAF or USAAF ?

From the thread it seems that some Luftwaffe a/c were alowed to fly if granted permission by the allies to do so. but some evidently did not have such permission and still continued to fight when and where they could.

Alex
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Old 11th January 2007, 08:03
Michal Michal is offline
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Re: Post 8th May 45 Shoot downs by Luftwaffe

Most probably they were Soviet planes, which several times encountered US planes over territory of Western and Northern Bohemia and over Saxony. As far as I know, last German planes flew over territory of Bohemia in morning hours of May 9 1945. After this I have any trace or evidence that German combat planes flew over Central Europe.
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Old 11th January 2007, 11:26
Andrey Dikov Andrey Dikov is offline
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Re: Post 8th May 45 Shoot downs by Luftwaffe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michal View Post
Most probably they were Soviet planes, which several times encountered US planes over territory of Western and Northern Bohemia and over Saxony. As far as I know, last German planes flew over territory of Bohemia in morning hours of May 9 1945. After this I have any trace or evidence that German combat planes flew over Central Europe.
There are Soviet claims over Baltic sea for May 9, and even May 10. That were transport planes from Kurland according Soviet point of view, but I have no German sight on this.
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Old 11th January 2007, 11:51
Pawel Burchard Pawel Burchard is offline
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Re: Post 8th May 45 Shoot downs by Luftwaffe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrey Dikov View Post
There are Soviet claims over Baltic sea for May 9, and even May 10. That were transport planes from Kurland according Soviet point of view, but I have no German sight on this.
There is some information on flights of Ju 88s of 1./K.G. 66 (?) on 9 May 1945 from a/f Stavanger (Sicherung für Geleit, Versuch über Kurland ins Reich zu fliegen). One of the planes was shot up by fighters over Skagerrak (identified as english).

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Pawel
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Old 12th January 2007, 11:30
kalender1973 kalender1973 is offline
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Re: Post 8th May 45 Shoot downs by Luftwaffe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrey Dikov View Post
There are Soviet claims over Baltic sea for May 9, and even May 10. That were transport planes from Kurland according Soviet point of view, but I have no German sight on this.
Hi,
On the 8th may the german sources say, they lost 32 from 35 Ju-52 over air base Grobin in Kurland due soviet fighter. Do you know, what soviet unit(s) was responsible for this ?
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Old 12th January 2007, 13:43
Andrey Dikov Andrey Dikov is offline
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Re: Post 8th May 45 Shoot downs by Luftwaffe

At least more than six iaps of VVS KBF - 60-70 claims.

But German sources don't "say". Unfortunately, afaik, there are no documental evidences about this. Neither noone have any idea what German transport unit it could be.

The original statement comes from Kurowski, who regarded as not much reliable source.
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Old 12th January 2007, 14:38
kalender1973 kalender1973 is offline
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Re: Post 8th May 45 Shoot downs by Luftwaffe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrey Dikov View Post
At least more than six iaps of VVS KBF - 60-70 claims.

But German sources don't "say". Unfortunately, afaik, there are no documental evidences about this. Neither noone have any idea what German transport unit it could be.

The original statement comes from Kurowski, who regarded as not much reliable source.
Hello,

I don't undestand, what the role play the unit, that Ju-52 lost. It is clear, that on 8th may the german send 35 Ju's and other planes to evacuate the wounded soldiers. From this 35 only 3 arrive it distination point and the eyewithneses say, the most other were shut down by soviet figthers.
My source is Fritz Morzik book "Deursche Transportflieger im Zweiten Weltkrieg". And IIRC his source was not Kurowskii(I can pricise this later). And it is also clear, that we will no have other document evidence, such GQM Meldunge, because GQM doesn't exist at that time.
We could say 70 claims against 25 losses, normally overclaiming rate.

Best Regards,
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Old 12th January 2007, 15:06
sveahk sveahk is offline
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Re: Post 8th May 45 Shoot downs by Luftwaffe

Hello,

This is what I posted at LEMB:

Found this in BAMA Freiburg last week. I try to translate it:

“Radio message from Generaloberst Jodl 19.5.45
To OKL/Lw.-Füst.Nord and Süd

The Allied Control Commission at the OKW notifies right now:
On the 9, 10 and 11.5, 1945, in the Dresden/Prag area, after signing the capitulation,unarmed Allied reconnaissance a/c were attacked by German fighters. Loss of personal and material resulted. Should this happen again, harsh measures will be taken.
To this OKW orders:
OKL will ensure with all means that any German a/c taking off without allied permission is not permitted.”

Any ideas what really happened? Can we assume that "German fighters" actually were Soviet fighters...?

Cheers

Hans
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  #9  
Old 12th January 2007, 15:55
Michal Michal is offline
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Re: Post 8th May 45 Shoot downs by Luftwaffe

I can only assume there were most probably Soviet planes, because no evidence of German Air Activity over Bohemia and Saxony after May 9 1945.

See for example post named US Lightning shot down by Soviets 9 May 1945 over Prague, Cz on this forum.
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Old 12th January 2007, 16:25
yogybär yogybär is offline
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Re: Post 8th May 45 Shoot downs by Luftwaffe

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalender1973 View Post
Hello,

I don't undestand, what the role play the unit, that Ju-52 lost. It is clear, that on 8th may the german send 35 Ju's and other planes to evacuate the wounded soldiers. From this 35 only 3 arrive it distination point and the eyewithneses say, the most other were shut down by soviet figthers.
My source is Fritz Morzik book "Deursche Transportflieger im Zweiten Weltkrieg". And IIRC his source was not Kurowskii(I can pricise this later). And it is also clear, that we will no have other document evidence, such GQM Meldunge, because GQM doesn't exist at that time.
We could say 70 claims against 25 losses, normally overclaiming rate.

Best Regards,
Morzik was a leading officer in the Luftwaffes air transport organization. He even wrote a report for the US-"GAF-history". So, he should have more first-hand data on that. Kurowskis book on Kurland reports about this:
- 35Ju42 coming from Norway morning 8th
- loading wounded and family fathers (text a bit pathetic...)
- are attacked by >100 VVS fighters and IL-2 (not very plausible)
- only 2 returned to the Reich @ low, rest: no survivors
- JG54 couldn't help as it was already ordered to fly to Kiel in the early morning.

Andrey, can you give details on which VVS-KBF units were involved?
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