Need Help to ID Luftwaffe Fighter

[jckinswo]

Hi,

I'm fairly new to all this so after researching books and online sites, I thought I'd see if someone here could help me ID this particular WWII fighter. The picture was taken in June of 1945 at a German Air Base (not sure which one) near Bad Aibling (between Munich and Salzberg).

I've numbered three things that have me questioning things. Number one points to the cowling which appears to be more rounded and separated from the rear part of the fuselage than the ME-109 for instance. It looks more like what you see on the HE-112 (the whole thing looks a lot like one including the air scoop underneath) but from what I understand (which isn't much I admit), only a few were made early on for Spain, Japan and Romania and with the camoflauge and armament, I can't imagine it's one of those). Number 2 points to something I've not seen in any of the pictures I've looked at. There's what appears to be a 20mm or 30mm cannon mounted next (looks like there's 4 cannon total, one on each wing and one on each side of the fuselage and no maching guns)to it but it doesn't appear to be part of the exhaust. With number three I was just curious. Is it a camera mount? Anyway, any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, John

[Nick Beale]

It's a Ju 87 D-3 adapted for night harassment operations, hence the tubular flame suppressors (your "2") attached to the exhaust ejectors. By day these aircraft had been dive bombers but this one had its dive brakes removed.

The wing guns are MG 17 rifle-calibre machine guns and what you have arrowed as "3" is a three-way bomb rack that can take either two 70kg bomb or one 250 kg.

There's another Ju 87 D in the background.

The camouflage of both is characteristic of Nachtschlachtgruppe 9 (NSG 9 for short) which was operational against allied supply lines in Italy from March 1944 to April 1945 when it retreated over the Alps to Innsbruck, Austria (but a few aircraft wound up at airfields around Munich due to problems with weather and navigation). I wrote a book about the unit and got to know many former airmen from it.

If there's any chance you could send me a 300dpi scan of this photo, I'd very much appreciate it. It would be purely for my own study and to share with the few surviving veterans of NSG 9.

[jckinswo]

Thanks so much for your quick reply Nick. Greatly appreciated. Boy was I off :-). When I was looking at other photos of Ju87s, the canopy threw me off (this one appears to be missing the rear portion), the wing didn't look so "gull-winged" and the machine gun didn't extend out a foot or so like some of the other photos show. Also, I hadn't been able to find anything that showed the flame suppressor. This is why it's great to have access to experts! I've learned a lot from this. I've also been researching more today and I have a couple of other questions.

Could this possibly be a D7? From what I've read they were adapted from the D-3s specifically for night fighting and had the MG17 replaced by the MG 151/20, 20mm cannon. On the subject of machine guns and cannons, are the machine guns on a Ju87 always extended or can they be "recessed" and shorter (making them look more like a 20mm to my untrained eye)?

I've attached a photo from a different forum that is identifed as a D7 (looks like it may have been taken at Bad Aibling as well) and it looks similar (except for the camoflauge). Is it correctly ID'd? I'm also curious about the difference between the D-3 and the D-5 (with a night version D-8). The only difference that I found on the Internet seems to be wing span, D-3/D-7 short and D-5/D-8 long. Is that the case? It seems like that would be somewhat hard to differentiate in photos.

Anyway, I'm sorry to get into too much detail. I appreciate your information and you have a great site. I couldn't find an email address though to send you a better quality version of this photo. Send it to me at morethanimages@verizon.net and I'll get the scan off to you. If you'd like an even higher res scan, include you physical address and I'll forward a CD to you along with a copy of the letter that ID's the date (June, 1945 and place, Bad Aibling). In the meantime I've attached a slightly higher res scan without the circles and arrows. I'll be posting this photo to eBay along with a few others on Sunday. It comes come an album that's in too bad of shape to keep together and there's only a few aircraft photos. Feel free to pass on copies to veterans or others doing research though. I always offer free scans to those who served or help.

Thanks again,
John

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by jckinswo

Could this possibly be a D7? From what I've read they were adapted from the D-3s specifically for night fighting and had the MG17 replaced by the MG 151/20, 20mm cannon. On the subject of machine guns and cannons, are the machine guns on a Ju 87 always extended or can they be "recessed" and shorter (making them look more like a 20mm to my untrained eye) John

No less dive-bomber authority than Peter C. Smith (author of countless books) recently castigated (Stuka Vol. 2, Classic Publications) "some (self-appointed and self-proclaimed) 'experts' [who] claim the Ju 87 D-7 and D-8 did not exist."

I haven't done any self-proclaiming yet (Where do you start? The steps of City Hall?) but…

There's no question that Junkers drew up the specs for these types and Christian Möller makes a logical case for prototypes being constructed.

However - and this is important, I think - if the D-7 and D-8 were built, where did they all go?

• I have never seen a single strength return or loss report from a Nachtschlachtgruppe referring to such an aircraft;
• I have seen not a single Allied report on a wrecked Ju 87 that identifies it as a D-7 or D-8;
• The D-7 and D-8 have not featured in any deciphered German signal that I have read over the last 17 years.

What you do see continually are references to the Ju 87 D-3, the Ju 87 D-5 and more rarely the "Ju 87 D-5 (N) VII" or "Ju 87 D-5 (Nacht) VII."

About the wing guns: the D-3 had normal span wings and MG 17 machine guns as in the picture you posted, usually with the fairing over the muzzle; the D-5 had extended wing tips and MG 151/20 cannon whose barrels extended substantially beyond the leading edge. In aircraft adapted for night operations, the muzzles were often fitted with a flash-suppressor.

[WEISNER]

John, Check this site out that is run by Nick Beale.....
http://ghostbombers.com/
this site is updated by nick regularly, and has great info that was not covered or available when he wrote his book.
Great Photos you have posted in your threads here....The double exposed shot of the G-6 is Very interesting.
Kev

[jckinswo]

Thanks Weisner. My pleasure on the posting. Nick Beale has been helping me sort through all this as well as finding some great information at the LEMB site. As I come across other photos, I'll be glad to post them. Best, John

hi,yes its a stuka , what happeers to be a gun is in fact, a flame shield , for night bombing,a damper,to stop glare from exshusts, at night, the unit i dont know but it was around 194344,..check aircraft of the aces, stukas,books its in there, yours
gary.