Lancaster ND969

[Leslie]

Hello
It was suggested through another forum that I post regarding any information/record of the fighter pilot who shot down my father's aircraft over Luxembourg on the night/early morning of August 12/13, 1944. Their mission was Russelsheim. My father survived, was captured, and spent the duration of the war at Stalag Luft 3. He is alive today, 84 years old and we are jointly compiling his war memoirs as a pathfinder pilot.
I thank you very much for any response.
Yours sincerely
Leslie(Trotter) Zwingli

My father was F/L Elmer John Trotter, a Canadian with the RAF

[Nokose]

Hello Leslie,
Here is a possible for you 12Aug44 23:46 Hptm. Kranz 2./NJG4 shot down a 4 motor Flgz at 05 Ost S/RN-3: 4,600 m. "RN" appears to be northern Luxemborg. I'm sure that someone can give you more information on Hptm. Kranz and maybe confirm the grid for you.
Hope this helps,
Michael

[Leslie]

Thanks Michael, Hopefully you are right and someone will have more info. My dad gave me some further info regarding that night. He thinks it was Luxembourg because when he was captured they walked him approximately 20 miles to Triere. There they spent the night in an airraid shelter where a young boy around 10 or 11 years of age approached him and asked him in fluent English if he would speak to two German pilots. These pilots told him they thought they had shot him down to which he replied that he didn't think that was very nice of them and they laughed and said better him than them.
He said he was treated very nicely by the Luftwaffe before he was sent to the Dulag Luft, Dortmund.
This will be another post.
Thanks Leslie

[Peter Spoden]

Hello Leslie,
can your father recall the time when they were hit by the nightfighter? Before or after midnight?
There was a Pathf.Lanc. arrow-shaped giant crash fire near Cochem/Mosel.
You can also check the nightfighter-forum:
http://disc.server.com/Indices/169401.html
Theo Boiten, a dutch expert, is mostly there and soon publishing his "Nachtjagd -diaries" and knows about more than 6000 NJ claims in the West. Very nice that you are jointly compiling the war memoirs of your father. I did the same a couple of years ago.
By the way I was over Ruesselsheim the same night in a Ju 88,
best regards to you and your dad,
Peter Spoden

[Leslie]

Thank you very much for your reply Peter
I will check with my father and see if he remembers. So you were one of the lucky ones to survive. Good for you. So many were lost and at such a young age. I would love to hear about your experience of the Russelsheim raid. Did you publish a book? If so what are the details and is it available in English?
Regards
Lelsie

[Leslie]

Hello again Peter
I spoke with my father and he said he was shot down about 1:30 AM GMT on the return trip to Britain. His aircraft tail IDwas 60F. They thought the fighter was a JU188, because they had never seen one like it and the guns fired upward at a 45 degree angle. Dad said at the time they were unaware that the JU188 existed and he finally saw and learned about them after the war.

I hope this information is what you were looking for.

Regards
Leslie

[Peter Spoden]

Hello Leslie,
the time and the mentioned place Trier dont coincide with my informations. I suggest you go for further in:
http://disc.server.com/Indices/169401.html
there are NJ-researchers from Oregon to New Zealand and my good friend Theo Boiten, who checked more than 6000 NJ claims in "NJ-Diaries" which hopefully is published soon. He has 49 confirmed Nachtjagd-claims for this night, mine (a Lancaster) 0026 German Time.
I agree with you, its more than terrible that so many young men in their best age (alone 55000 in bombercommand) were killed and never could become old in the family like your father and me.
If you like go in google.com and search for "peter spoden",
herzliche Gruesse to your father
Peter

[David P. Williams]

Hi Leslie, and a very good afternoon Peter,

Leslie, It has been suggested that weshould have some contact re this matter. Please contact me off board via a personal message. All the best, David.

[Horst Weber]

Good afternoon Leslie !

According to my information, your father's LANCASTER ND969, No. 582 Squadron, 60 O F came down neat a road close to the little village of Papiermühle, Germany. This location is near Neumagen-Dhron on the hills over the Moselle river. The crash location is about 24 km Norheast of Trier, Germany. You may find some sentences about the incident in the annual yearbook of "Kreis Bernkastel-Wittlich 2001" on page 245.

Hope this helps a bit.

Best regards.

Horst Weber

[Leslie]

Thank you Horst. This makes sense to me because my Dad landed in the trees and when he looked down he could see a river way down below.
Do you know if this would still agree with the information that he was shot down by a Hauptmann Krantz?

Regards
Leslie