November 5th, 1943

[Jochen Prien]

Gentlemen,

on November 5th, 1943, 2./JG 2 claimed a B-17 shot down at 14.25 hrs near Isigny; this claim is listed in various official reports and sources.

However, it doesn't fit at all into the overall picture of the activities of I./JG 2 on that day as the location of the claim is way off from where the Gruppe fought the B-17 that were attacking targets in Western Germany on that day. And contrary to the other claims of I./JG 2 on this day only this one appears in the daily report of the Ic officer of Luftflotte 3, indicating that it was in fact achieved over Lfl. 3 territory as opposed to the other claims, which fell in the area of Lw.-Befh. Mitte.

Could somebody enlighten me as to the whereabouts of this claim ? Was 2./JG 2 operating separately - as it was the case quite often - and if so against which B-17 incursion ( a lone straggler far away from his Group ? ), or is there another Isigny still in the area of Luftflotte 3 but close to the Belgian / Dutch border ?

Any substantiated advice will be gratefully accepted.

Regards

Jochen Prien

[Steve49]

According 'Losses of 8th and 9th Air Forces' VIII Bomber Command lost seven B.17's during the day, though none appear to have come down in the area of Isigny, Normandy.

42-39831 -Crashed 'just south of Vierlingsbeek, Holland'.
41-24565 -Crashed 'half mile north-east of Wouw' (near Roosendaal, Holland).
42-30852 -Crashed 'into the water at Hollands Diep near Klundert, Holland'.
42-30166 -Crashed 'into the North sea 300 yards west of Schowen Island, Holland'.
42-37748 -Crashed into sea. Location is not specified, but reported as coming down after being hit by flak.
42-30142 -Crashed 'one mile east of Ijzendijke' (SE of Vlissingen)
42-30789 -Crashed 'near Lokeren, Belgium'

Another was lost after crashing soon after take off and two were written off after crash landing in Suffolk on return.

The targets for the day were Gelsenkirchen and Munster.

Regards,

Steve

[RT]

Could be Signy, well know ..

Gen. for locations I use this site;

http://www.viamichelin.com/viamichel...MaHomePage.htm

Further to 5.nov nd 2.JG2, it seems that this staffel was in Normandy at that time one Fw190 got some problem in landing at Bernay FP

Rémi

[Chris Goss]

I have confirmation that an aircraft from II Jagdkorps shot down a Boeing 15 km N Isigny 1415 hrs and that some of the claims that day were:

II Jagdkorps - 1 Boeing confirmed, Liberator unconfirmed (1425 hrs Q KK)
Flak: Fortress 1430 hrs 8 km SE Breskens) , Marauder 1349 hrs 5 km N Marquise, Mustang Hellevoetsluis 1212 hrs (414 Sqn)

I have a 4 engined crashing at Vierlingsbeek 1400 hrs

Marauder St Inglevert 1322 hrs
Marauder Ambletheuse 1350 hrs
Spitfire Frethune 1635 hrs

Hope this helps

[Steve49]

The Mauraders were 9th Air Force two B.26's lost during a raid on Mimoyecques/Marquise.

Regards

Steve