Robert Johnson vs Egon Mayer-Urban myth?

[kaki3152]

Just saw the latest episode of "Dogights"-the computer graphics WWII series.
The episode was the famous encounter of Lt. Robert Johnson on June 26,1943 with a Fw-190. In the episode, the narrator claims that it was Maj. Egon Mayer,Kommandeur III/JG-2. In Obermaier:Vol. I, it claims that Maj. Mayer shot down three P-47s on this date. This claim is also mentioned in Freeman's "The Mighty Eighth",where it is mentioned that there was a radio program interview with Maj. Egon Mayer in which he claimed that he had shot down three P-47s.
However, when looking at Tony Wood's list there are only two victories for JG-2 on this date, both by Ofw. Kurt Goltzsch of 5./JG-2. One is a P-47,the other is a B-17.There are no victories for Egon Mayer. JG-26 claimed eight (8) P-47s on this day.
Maybe we'll have to wait on to Eric Mombeek publish his JG-2 book to get to the bottom of this.

[NickM]

Kaki:

Can't help on the Egon Mayer case but maybe you can help me: what were the fighter groups that George Sutcliffe & Ken Dahlberg flew with & the identity of the Me109 units tangled with? My copies of 'To Win the Winter Sky' & 'Angels Eight' are at the office & I cannot access that info on my own.

TIA

NM

[David N]

I have Don Caldwell's "The JG26 War Diary Volume two 1943-1945" in front of me. On page 110-111, he describes this combat. The US 56th Fighter Group lost 4 P-47's shot down by II/JG26, a fifth crashed off the English coast, two more including Johnson's were scrapped.

Of the German pilot who emptied his ammo into Johnson's plane, Caldwell writes, "The identity of the German pilot is unfortunately not known." There was no evidence that Mayer's unit, III/JG2 was in the vicinity, but no proof that he was not. Caldwell added-"If Mayer did participate, he was probably flying as part of the Geschwader Stabsschwarm; he was to be named JG 2 Kommodore on 1 July.

[Sylvester Stadler]

On 27 July 2007 the History Channel featured on its regular program
Dogfight an episode entitled Thunderbolt which covered three dogfights
in which Thunderbolt units were engaged. The first part described the
famous fight of Robert S. Johnson of the 56th FG where his squadron of
16 P-47s were bounced by approximately the same number of Focke Wulf
190s on 26 June 1943 and Johnson's Thunderbolt was shot up, caught
fire, and went into a spin from which he recovered and the engine fire
went out. As he was flying away from the combat scene he was attacked
by a Fw 190 which had evidently used up its 20 mm ammunition and was
using its two 7.92 mm machine guns. The famous author Barrett Tillman
claimed that the Fw 190 was piloted by the famous ace Egon Mayer
(commander of III./JG 2). The P-47 took the punishment of the
rifle-caliber MG and returned to base, although it was written-off
(category E) which is never mentioned in the documentary. Neither is
mentioned the fact that five other P-47s were lost.

The German records indicate that the following pilots made claims for P-47s over
Western Europe on this date:

26.06.43 Hptm. Wilhelm-F. Galland Stab II./JG 26 P-47 N. Neufchâtel:
8.000 m. 18.52

26.06.43 Ofw. Adolf Glunz 4./JG 26 P-47 N. Neufchâtel: 7.000 m. 18.54

26.06.43 Ltn. Heinz Hoppe 4./JG 26 P-47 Neufchâtel: 7.000 m. 18.55

26.06.43 Fw. Günther Scholz 5./JG 26 P-47 20 km. N. Neufchâtel: 2.500
m. 19.00

26.06.43 Ofw. Kurt Goltzsch 5./JG 2 P-47 QC 2: 5.550 m. [15 km. N.W.
Cayeux] 19.03

26.06.43 Hptm. Wilhelm-F. Galland Stab II./JG 26 P-47 10 km. N.W.
Dieppe: 7-8.000 m. 19.04

26.06.43 Ltn. Waldemar Radener 4./JG 26 P-47 10-12 km. N.N.W. Le
Tréport: 400 m. 19.04

26.06.43 Fw. Peter Crump 5./JG 26 P-47 15-20 km. N.W. Somme Estuary:
300 m. 19.10

26.06.43 Ltn. Heinz Hoppe 4./JG 26 P-47 10 km. N.W. Somme Estuary:
100-0 m. 19.10.

If Tillman had checked these records, he would have known that Egon
Mayer made no claims on this date. I believe the story of Egon Mayer
attacking Johnson's P-47 came from Roger Freeman's book The Mighty
Eighth where on page 44 he claims "Later it is said, an enemy radio
station broadcast an interview with Oberst Egon Mayer of J.G. 2, who
told how he shot down three P-47s on the Villacoublay raid, including
one marked HV-P!" The latter was Johnson's Thunderbolt. Tillman has
accepted this rumor as fact, indicating that we should always be
sceptical of such claims as to who shot down whom.

Johnson in his book Thunderbolt describes the dogfight down to the
minutest details. What is significant is that the describes the
altitude and area of this fight. He states that he had flown over
Dieppe and that the fight occured at about 1000 feet over the English
Channel. The closest description is that of Lt. Waldemar Radener who
made his claim of a P-47 as occuring 10-12 km NNW of Le Treport. This
town is less than 25 km ENE of Dieppe. Radener's description would
place this fight over the English Channel roughly north of Dieppe. It
is also possible that Fw. Wilhelm Mayer shot up Johnson's Thunderbolt
as he filed a claim for a P-47 at 1900 20-30 km NW of Dieppe. Mayer's
claim was unconfirmed as he had no witnesses which seems to be the
case in the Johnson fight where Johnson states that he was attacked by
a single Fw 190. It also seems likely that Johnson's aircraft was
also claimed when the initial attack occured which sent his P-47
spinning earthward, on fire.

Egon Mayer made no claims on this date and his unit III./JG 2 was
stationed in Brittany, too far away. It is also significant that Kurt
Goltzsch of 5./JG 2 made a claim for a P-47 during this raid indicated
that some aircraft of II./JG 2 were involved in the interception. The
German fighter pilots claimed nine Thunderbolts of which six were
destroyed or written off and five were damaged. I./ and II./JG 2 were
involved during the fighting, claiming three B-17s, two Spitfires,
and,of course, the single P-47. Major Josef Priller also claimed one
B-17. I don't know what losses were sustained by JG 2 and JG 26.

[Ruy Horta]

Minor point, how do we know which details originated from Johnson and which from Caidin?!

[NickM]

And IF the early parts of the Ep are correct, it certainly showed a LOT of brass on the part of II/JG26 to bounce 48 P47s with only 16 FWs!

NM

[Sylvester Stadler]

Just how much of the book Thunderbolt is in the words of Johnson and how much is in Caidin's is not known. The dedication is written by Robert S. Johnson so I assume he read the contents and was in agreement with the manuscript. The forward is written by Caidin and one can easily determine that it is in his usual exaggerated style. This would be one of Caidin's better books, the others being The Ragged, Rugged Warriors which covers the air war over China and the early Pacific which was published in 1966, when little information could be obtained on this subject, and Zero. The others I read on the B-17 and P-38 and the Schweinfurt raid are pretty worthless.

[Sylvester Stadler]

Die Wehrmachtberichte 1939-45, Band 2, 1. Januar 1942 bis 31. Dezember 1943 reports the following on 27 June 1943 for the previous date (26 June):
"Bei Tagesvorstössen britisch-nordamerikanischer Bomber- und Jagdflieger-verbände gegen die besetzten Westgebiete verlor der Feind 14 Flugzeuge. Ein deutsches Jagdflugzeug kehrte nicht zurück."

It seems that the OKW lost track of one enemy plane since I see that JG 2 and JG 26 claimed at least 15. This precludes Egon Mayer from having claimed three Thunderbolts as claimed by Roger Freeman in his book, The Mighty Eighth.

Which unit lost the fighter mentioned in the OKW report and who was the pilot?

[kaki3152]

Its funny that Obermaier supports E. Mayer's claim of three P-47s on this date. One reason why I think Obermaier has some erroneous information

[Sylvester Stadler]

I have the 1966 edition (first edition) of Ernst Obermeier's Die Ritterkreuzträger der Luftwaffe, Band 1, Jagdflieger in which no mention is made that Egon Meyer scored any victories on 26 June 1943. Is this claim made in a subsequent edition? Can anyone please give the quotation in German.