Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Reading some materials concerning losses of KG 51 (15-19 Ju 88 A-5s), I think (maybe wrong), that this unit mostly had operated over Tarnopol, Stanislavov area, not so far on the north, and had not done bombing attaks on airfields around Lvov.

Mostly the unit's losses are conected with the attack on Kurovitce airfiled (base of 164. IAP, 66. SzAP of. 15. SAD near Lvov), but there were no attacks done by KG 51, but the last one did them more on the south, as on territory of airfieled 64. IAD fighter regiments.

I think, that KG 51 losses could be more atributed to the fighter attacks of 12. IAP and 149. IAP of 64. IAD, then to above 1-st units.

There is a report of 64. IAD, where are mentioned about 12 airmen captured on 22.06.41 (so it could be captured some crews of KG 51).

Maybe someone have some detail about targets of KG 51 on the morning of 22.06.41, then could be clear: Lvov area or Stanislavov, Tarnopol?


Regards,
mirekw

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Hallo Mirek!

Die III./K.G.51 hatte am 22.6.1941 den Auftrag, russische Flugplätze im Tiefflug mit SD2 anzugreifen. Diese Flugplätze lagen südlich von Lemberg, bei Stryj, bei Buczacz und bei Tarnopol. Mit Bordwaffen und restlichen Bomben sollten Kolonnen und Militärlager bekämpft werden.

Rene

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 7076, Klopsch, Fw. Günter, , KG 51, , 8., , 9K+DS, VK+VD, , MIA, cause unknown. B & Bs also MIA, Bf KIA., B Fw. Ludwig Wiedemann, Bf Gefr. Karl Schote & Bs Uffz. Josef Steinbach, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, Medcalf, Ort unbekannt, 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 5178, Sommer, Fw. Heinz, , KG 51, , 9., gelbe A, 9K+AT, KC+GO, , MIA with crew, cause unknown., Bo Uffz. Wolfgang Bölke, Bf Uffz. Richard Frank & Bs Gefr. Anton Brauchstetter, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, Medcalf, (Büchow), 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 8259, Ungericht, Fw. Alfred, , KG 51, , 9., gelbe L, 9K+LT, DL+EI, , MIA with crew, cause unknown., Bo Uffz. Kurt Küster, Bf Gefr. Werner Jakobs & Bs Gefr. Paul Hase, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, , (Stryj), 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 6229?, Deisinger, Ofw. Raimund, , KG 51, , 7., weiße F, 9K+FR, KB+SD?, , KIA, cause unknown. Rest of crew MIA., Bo Ofw. Georg Maier, Bf Fw. Johann Wagner & Bs Uffz. Hans Buckenmeyer, WNr. is dup with earlier loss., Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, Medcalf, Tarnopol, 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 6318, Alder, Ltn. Emanuel, , KG 51, , 9., gelbe D, 9K+DT, , , MIA with crew, cause unknown., Bo Ofw. Ludwig Müller, Bf Ofw. Josef Dorr & Bs Fw. Erich Maier, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, , Tarnopol, 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 5245, Böhm, Oblt. Gerhard, , KG 51, , 9., gelbe G, 9K+GT, , , KIA with crew, cause unknown., Bo Gefr. Karl-Heinz Arens, Bf Uffz. Franz Lykar & Bs Gefr. Alois Bobinger, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, , Tarnopol, 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 6234, Harmann, Ltn. Christoph, , KG 51, , 8., , 9K+AS, KB+SI, , KIA with crew, cause unknown., B Gefr. Ludwig Smolker, Bf Uffz. Hermann Plücker & Bs Fw. Fritz Knoch, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, Medcalf, Ort unbekannt, 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-, , n.n., , KG 51, , 9., , , , , Enemy fire. Bs WIA., Bs Uffz. Anton Rottbacher, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, , Buczacz, b, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 6296, Steinmetz, Oblt. Herbert (B)/Kärmer, Fw. Willi (F), , KG 51, , 8., , 9K+ES, , , Both KIA with crew, cause unknown., Bf Uffz. Werner Lehmann & Bs Uffz. Hermann Dittmer, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, , Ort unbekannt, 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 8196, Hogger, Ltn. Josef, , KG 51, , II., , , , , WIA due to Flak. Bs also WIA., Bs Ogefr. Johann Lenska, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, , Pantalowice, b, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 5136, Amelung, Uffz. Heinrich, , KG 51, , 2., , 9K+FK, , , MIA with crew, cause unknown., Bo Uffz. Willibald König, Bf Uffz. Ernst Els & Bs Uffz. Ludwig Berg, DKiG?, Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, Medcalf, Ort unbekannt, 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 3171, STEMMLER, Oblt. Wilhelm, , KG 51, , 4., weiße A, 9K+AM, ND+DS, , Reported lost, cause unknown. F and Bo returned, Bf & Bm KIA., Bo Fw. Paul Stratenberg, Bf Ofw. Helmut Ludwig & Bm Ofw. Hermann Steglich, RK., Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, , Ort unbekannt, 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 2373, Müller, Ltn. Gerhard, , KG 51, , 5., , 9K+GN, , , MIA with crew, cause unknown., Bo Gefr. Heinz Wulf, Bf Uffz. Wilhelm Gries & Bm Uffz. Johann Sergenfrei, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, , Ort unbekannt, 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 8179, Stadelmeyer, Hptm. Fritz, , KG 51, II., Stab II., grüne I, 9K+IC, PC+QM, , KIA, cause unknown. B & Bf also KIA, Bm WIA., B Ltn. Wilfried Eschle, Bf Fw. Rudolf Döhring & Bm Flg. Erich Anders, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, Medcalf, Ort unbekannt, 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 4328, Schmidt, Ltn. Heinz, , KG 51, , 5., , 9K+CN, , , MIA with crew, cause unknown., Bo Uffz. Arno Fritze, Bf Gefr. Karl Rinagel & Bs Gefr. Walter Waske, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, , Ort unbekannt, 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 2364, Spannheimer, Ofw. Rudolf, , KG 51, , 5., , 9K+HN, , , KIA, cause unknown. B & Bm also KIA, Bf MIA., B Stfw. Alfred Kress, Bf Ofw. Paul Schwerdt & Bm Ofw. Leonhard Wetthner, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, , Ort unbekannt, 100%, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 6143, Palmer, Fw. Wilhelm, , KG 51, II., II., , , CF+VM, , WIA due to enemy fire., , , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, Medcalf, Krosno, b, F
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 5126, Evers, Uffz. Otto, , KG 51, , 9., gelbe C, 9K+CT, , , Reported lost, cause unknown. Crew returned WIA?, B Gefr. Karl Kutalek, Bf Uffz. Eberhard Holm & Bs Gefr. Kraus, F DKiG., Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, Medcalf, Ort unbekannt, 100%, F

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Regarding the loss places, one may test the Volksbund database online:

http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche...ram_error=true

For example for this loss:
22-Jun-41, , Ju 88A-5, 5245, Böhm, Oblt. Gerhard, , KG 51, , 9., gelbe G, 9K+GT, , , KIA with crew, cause unknown., Bo Gefr. Karl-Heinz Arens, Bf Uffz. Franz Lykar & Bs Gefr. Alois Bobinger, , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5, , Tarnopol, 100%, F

The death place of Oblt Gerhard Böhm is listed as 1 km n.w. Worona 18 km S.O.Stanislau, of Gefr. Karl-Heinz Arens as 1 km N. Warona, of Uffz. Franz Lykar as "B. Tarnopol, 1 km N.W. Worona" and of Gefr. Alois Bobinger as "Otyma 1km N.W. Worona 18 km S.O. Stanislau b. Tarnopol".

The next step will be to find the real place name, and how it is written in Polish rather in German.

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Here are old postings:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=10393

Rene

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Laurent, thanks for the added information. Its interesting that the remains of the crew seem to have been found scattered over an area of a couple of kilometers. Have to wonder if the aircraft blew up in flight or if the crew all bailed out and were killed in their chutes or on the ground.

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41 not near Lvov
 

Thanks for this information, but it is difficoult to find, area of operation of KG 51 (I, II, III, + Stab, about 80 JU 88 ) only according place of crash on 22.06.41.

I think agai,n that airfileds, which were under attack of Ju 88s of KG 51 were not in the Lvov airfield's ring, but more on the south-east (like near Stanisławów, Tarnopol).

The losses were done by fighters from 64. IAD, and units had attacked (Polish names): Stryj, Buszow, Trembowla, Chodorów, Lisice (place of airfiled 64. IAD's regiments), which were set up near towns like: Tarnopol (where was field headquater of command South-Wester Front too), Stanisławów.

In my opinion these high losses could not be atributed to the fighters from Lvov area. There is very often given as there were sustained after attack on Kurovice airfiled (where was other regiment). It is false and wrong information.

Second: may you know the time of these losses. There were not sustained during one mission but during the two, dane versus two differen airfield location: 12. IAP and 149. IAP (I think so?)?


To Reiner. I think that there were dropted not only SD 2 but were other larger bombs too. For example the load of destroyer Me 110 were mixed as 96 SD 2 plus a few next SC 50 or SC 250 used agains airfileds.

SD 2 was too small to inflicted more real damage agains runway. It could be mixed armament, Ju 88 could carry such mix bombs load too.

Regards,
mirekw

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

That is a mistake,Thenelm!!
Ich antworte in deutscher Sprache, die liegt mir besser. Folgendes zum Verlust der Besatzung Oblt.Böhm.
Am 25.6.1942 führten Nachforschungen der Sonderkommission 3 des Reichskriminalpolizeiamtes zur Auffindung des Flugzeuges in einem Walde ,1km NW Worona, Gemeinde Otynia,(etwa18 km SO Stanislau). Das Kennzeichen war am Flugzeugbruch einwandfrei zu erkennen. Nach glaubwürdigen Aussagen der Einwohner von Worona stürzte das Flugzeug am 22.6.1941 in den frühen Morgenstundenab. Von der Besatzung erlagen zwei Mitglieder gleich danach an erlittenen Brandwunden.Die beiden anderen verstarben eine halbe Stunde später an Verletzungen, die sie durch die Explosion mitgeführter Munition davongetragen hatten.
Am Absturzort erscheinende NKWD-Beamte nahmen Ausweise und Wertsachen der Toten Flieger an sich. Die Beisetzung erfolgte durch Ortsbewohner von Worona in einem gemeinsamen Grab, das sich in gepflegtem Zustand auf dem dortigen Friedhof befindet.
An Mirek:
Die III./K.G.51 wurde vor dem Russlandfeldzug in Wiener-Neustadt für Schlachtfliegereinsätze mit der SD2 umgerüstet. Die SD2 wurde im Tiefflug , 25 bis 50 m Höhe, abgeworfen. Verwendet wurden Aufschlag- und Zeitzünder, das heißt die Bombe detonierte beim Aufprall auf dem Boden oder einige Meter darüber. Die Ju88 bekam spezielle Magazine in den Bombenschacht eingebaut. Diese nahmen 2X360 SD2 auf. Ziel der Tieffliegerangriffe waren die feindlichen Flugzeuge auf der Erde und nicht die Verwüstung der Fliegerhorste. Diese benötigte man ja später selbst.
Nach den verheerenden Verlusten in den ersten Kriegstagen wurden keine Schlachtfliegereinsätze mehr geflogen. Die SD2 verschwand aus dem Bestand der III.Gruppe.
Anbei einige Fotos der III./K.G.51 vom 22.6.1941.

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

OK, I undrestand, but it is very strange that only SD 2 were used, when you look at SKG 210, Me 110 had used 96 SD-2 and + one bomb SC 250 or SC 500, it was more effective, then pnly 2 kg of SD-2 "devil's egg" , splinter bomb x 720.


"Schlachtfliegereinsätze mehr geflogen. Die SD2 verschwand aus dem Bestand der III.Gruppe.Anbei einige Fotos der III./K.G.51 vom 22.6.1941."

Are you sure, that these 4 photos are from III/KG 51? If yes could be good maching.
I have at least one aditional (done in flight above I-153).
I have published it 5 years ago in Poland my article about 22.06.41, there is from the collection of my friend T. Kopański. He had two such photos. The same "black" shadows of SD 2 upper. He had edited them in his book "Barbarossa Victims" 9 or so years ago.

This I-17 in one of it it was of cours Jak-1.

BTW. There were some explosion on some bombers due to some problems mechanizm problems with SD 2 on 22.06.10, not at all planes but, on a few types, they self-exploded, later it was improved and they were used again.

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Hallo Mirek!

Die Fotos sind zweifelsfrei von der III./K.G.51, denn sie sind aus dem Album von Oblt.Werner Poppenburg, der in der 7.Staffel flog.
Es ist eine Tatsache, dass die III./K.G.51 ihre ersten Einsätze im Russlandfeldzug mit SD2 flog. Für die beiden anderen Gruppen kann ich nicht sprechen.
Wo kann ich Deinen Artikel über den 22.6.1941 lesen? Wo finde ich "Barbarossa Victims"?

Rene

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Mirek, one explanation for using SD2 bombs only was that the goal was to disable as much as possible of the Soviet aircraft, but not the airbases themselves, as German planned to use them in the next days.

Jim (theelm), Reiner has already answered tour point. For this crew, the death place is roughly the same, the variation being more the different ways the data was inserted into the Volksbund database or the original file.

By the way thanks to Reiner to have posted additional details.

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

To Laurent: I know exacly about the effect of SD 2, it was terrific, if the blow was near plane, peoples make many holes, but anyway one SC 250 or SC 500 in the runway had made nice and deep and width big hole, and it was not so easy to take off. This is the point.

When Ju 88 took 720 SD in fact it was 1440 kg of bomb load, could be enough for the low level attack. It is usless to take aditional bombs.

My story was edited in Poland 5 years ago in "Militaria i Fakty" part I and II, and it is only in Polish.
"Barbarossa Victims", many destroyed on the ground Soviet planes (such about 300-400 b&w phoots. It was edited in 100% English version, by MMP books,

Regards,
mirekw

PS
May someone have exacte time of morning mission done by III/KG 51:

7. Staffel?
8. Staffel?
9. Staffel?

Could be interesting maching losses with Soviet claimes?

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Exakte Abflugzeiten der Staffeln kann ich nicht nennen, da ich keine Flugbuchauszüge besitze. Dazu müsste man das KTB der III./K.G.51 einsehen. Es soll im Militärarchiv Freiburg vorhanden sein.
Aus dem Tagebucheintrag Lt.Poppenburg vom 22.6.1941 geht hervor, dass zuerst die 7.Staffel mit der Rotte Hptm.Zeep und Lt.Kielhorn als erste um 3.15Uhr startete. Als zweite Rotte startete Fw.Müller und Lt.Poppenburg.Die 8. und 9.Staffel folgend. Abstand der Rotten 5 Minuten. Müller und Poppenburg giffen den Flugplatz Stryj an. Die Flugzeuge griffen ihre Ziele in der Rotte an, weil sie dadurch beweglicher waren. Jede einzelne Rotte hatte ein eigenes Ziel.
My story was edited in Poland 5 years ago in "Militaria i Fakty" part I and II, and it is only in Polish.- Welche Nummer? Kann man dieses Heft noch bekommen? Vielleicht eine Kopie? Ich habe polnische Freunde, die mir übersetzen können.

Rene

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Hi

If the attacks were versus Stryj, so it possible that they attacked 62. SzAP, Soviets on I-153s had claimed two rammings over there against bombers. There was second regiment (one IAP) too but not yet got fighters (some unofficial could be there too?, but I do not have any info about this, but it is possible).

It is also possible, that they attacked Drohobycz airfiled too (???), which is not so far from Stryj. It was base of 10. IAP where were Jak-1s, and I-153 too.


The story was edited 5 and 6 years ago, in the magazine, which is not already edited Militaria i Fakty (last issue summer 2009).

Just now I am going to edit in Poland a book about this subject only Polish too, and used some information from these articles giving many new fact ect. It will be 3 times more then articles.

The price for one issue was 29,00 zlp, which is now about 7,0-7,2 Euro, without shipment. It was not standard article, but rahter small monography (vol. II 16 pages, vol. I 10 1/2, and the begining 17 pages).

It is not easy job with translation, it is long story indeed.

The photos of bombing with SD 2 one I-153 is in vol. 2, p. 17.


1) The Day of Armagedon. To Beat the Red Blizkrieg. 22 VI 1941 Smashing Stalin’s Military Aviation vol. 2. Dzień Armagedonu - uprzedzenie „Czerwonego Blizkriegu”. 22 czerwca 1941 r. rozbicie wojsk lotniczych Stalina, cz. II, p. 14 + 2 color pages with 8 colors (I-16 2 x typ 5, 1x typ 10, 1xUTI-4, 3 x I-153, 1 x I-15 bis), 21 b&w photos, [in:] Militaria i Fakty 1 (26)/2005 (I 2005).
2) The Day of Armagedon. To Beat the Red Blizkrieg. 22 VI 1941 Smashing Stalin’s Military Aviation vol. 1. Dzień Armagedonu - uprzedzenie „Czerwonego Blizkriegu”. 22 czerwca 1941 r. rozbicie wojsk lotniczych Stalina, cz. I, p. 10 ½, 13 b&w photos, [in:] Militaria i Fakty 4 (25)/2004.
3) Red Blizkrieg. Stalin’s Invasion on German in July 1941. Czerwony Blitzkrieg. Inwazja Stalina na Niemcy w lipcu 1941 r., p. 17, 29 b&w photos, 2 maps, [in:] Militaria i Fakty 2 (23)/2004.

Regards,
mirekw

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Hallo Mirek!

Frohe Weihnachten,auch an alle, die diesen Beitrag lesen.
Ist es ok, wenn ich in deutscher Sprache schreibe?

Die Besatzungen der 7./K.G.51 hatten am 22.6.41 um 01.00Uhr im Geschäftszimmerder Staffel die Flugbesprechung mit Zieleinweisung. Das Ziel der Rotte Müller-Poppenburg war der Flugplatz Stryj. Poppenburg schreibt dazu:"...Unser Ziel der Flugplatz Stryj. Hier sollen ein Haufen Schlachtflieger stehen. ich blicke auf die Karte. Stryj ist ein kleines Städtchen am Rande der Karpaten an dem gleichnamigen Flüsschen, das in den Dnjestr fließt, von Lezany rund 200km, das heisst etwa 180km tief in Feindgebiet. Wir bekommen das Zielbild des Platzes, der unmittelbar neben der Stadt liegt. Der Platz hat sogar Hallen. Im Süden ist ein kleines Wäldchen. Von hier aus soll der angriff im Tiefstflug erfolgen. Um den Platz nicht zu verfehlen , müssen wir etwas höher anfliegen...."
Auf dem Rückflug wurde die Rotte von einer einzelnen "Rata" angegriffen, die aber abgewehrt wurde. Müller kam mit einem Motor in Lezany an. Poppenburg`s Ju88 hatte lediglich drei Treffer von Fla-MG. Nach dem ersten Einsatz waren von der 7.Staffel nur noch zwei Ju88 einsatzklar. Die 9K+GR mit Poppenburg und die 9K+BR mit Ofw.Drechsler. Beide Maschinen flogen beim zweiten Einsatz bewaffnete Aufklärung mit dem Ziel, belegte russische Flugplätze im Raum der ersten Angriffe zu bekämpfen. Sie finden eine Flugplatz, von dem gerade Jäger aufsteigen und greifen ihn an. Danach wird die Rotte getrennt und von mehreren Jägern angegriffen. Poppenburgs Flugzeug bekam rund 40 Treffer ab, einer ließ die Kühlflüssigkeit eines Motors auslaufen. Ein Jäger wurde durch seinen Bordfunker abgeschossen. Dann Bauchlandung in Lezany. Drechslers Maschine landete ebenfalls mit Bruch, 15 min. früher, weil ein Reifen zerschossen wurde.

Im Buch "Wir flogen mit dem Edelweiss" von Friedrich Aufdemkamp, beschreibt der Autor, dass er als Angehöriger der 6.(II.)/K.G.51 am Morgen des 22.6.1941 mit Start 03.45Uhr ebenfalls den Flugplatz Stryj angriff.

Irgendwo hatte ich mal gelesen, das es die Plätze Stryj 1 bis 3 gab. Ist da was dran?

Gruß, Rene

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

If it was Stryj, so it could be there Jak-1 too?
If concern me such German I can undrestand, but others I do not know?

As on 1.06.41 there were no Jak-1 in 62. SzAP only 72 I-153 and I-15. The second regiment was 165. IAP, which had only I-16, I-153, I-15bis (as on 1.06.41 too).

Two other regiments where were Jak-1s: 20. IAP (Sambor, Krasiłow) and 92. IAP (Drohobycz, Tiranowka).

So it was very strange for me to see on one photo Jak-1 made over Stryj, he should not be there, if the attack was in fact on Stryj airfield, wrong plane - fighter in wrong regiment - assult, but during transfer could landed there too, or was for 165. IAP or for other fighter units this division.

I do not hear about more then one airfiled near Stryj like no 1 to 3 (?). Could be strange. It is possible that there were made some false airfiled, which should be constructed this months? If it was this, so it fits.

Planes of 62. SzAP were on: Stryj and next airfield it was Lisiatycze. There are only two airfiled of this regiment, nothing more. It was assoult regiment, no fighter, so the planes were not disperced in different locations.
In some cases fighter regiments had own zwienos, escadrilas in aditional a few ambush airfileds, but it was near the border line. 63. SAD was much deeper into Soviet territory.

Regards,
mw

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Reading the post about attack of III/KG 51, I have just realised, that this unit had changed its flight structure.
Mostly bombers had flown in basic formation of 3 planes: like Ju 87, He 111, Ju 88, Do 17 filghts/staffel etc.

This tactic had been changed during adaptation of III/KG 51 to the assoult/destroyers role. They began attack early in the morning in formation of 2-planes (Rotte) instead of bombers 3 planes formation.
There were also one case, when one Ju 88 had attack Soviet airfiled early in the morning destroying 7 of 10 I-16 of 87. IAP.

A few hours later, they attacked attack some airfileds in bigger formation.


Second: Ju 88 A-5 of III/KG 51 had used SD 2 bombs, there were two cases (Ju 88 and Do 17 Z) in Luftflotte 2 of self-explosion of them during normal flying due to construction problems with their containers.
Maybe some losses of Ju 88 in III/KG 51 were sustained due to same reason?
Is there any information about such accidents? SD 2 were for a while not used due to these explosions in summer 1941.

Regards,
mw

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Reiner:

Please make your posts in English. This is an English-speaking forum unless you are quoting from an original document of the time.

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Reiner, I posted what I have, which is from the Gen.Qu. losses. I stated an observation based on the locations of the deceased as posted by Laurent. I certainly would agree that they were all located with a kilometer or 2 of each other, on the other hand I have no particular knowledge of the geography of the old Soviet Union as it was in WWII other than from maps as published by Mr. Prien and other publications. Those only seem to point out locations of major cities or bases, not small towns, villages or hamlets. I can only post information that I have available to me - I'm always open to being corrected.

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Hallo thenelm



You mean the crew Oblt. Böhm or all K.G.51 losses?
I have my realizations from the original NVM of the III. /K.G.51(22.6.1941) and copys from investigation reports to the MIA crews.

Rene

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

There was edietd in Germany in 2000 in Propylaen editor very interesting and important book concerning the "bloody shambles" done by NKWD in Soviet western prisions between 22-30 June 1941.

She was written by Bogdan Musiał, "Konterrevolutionare Elemente sind zu erschissen", Berlin-Munchen 2000. Next year had beed edited in Poland too.
There are information about finding in Tarnopol prison 3 Wehrmacht soldiers and 7 next from Luftwaffe, in Łuck prison had been found next 9 bodies of Wehrmacht soldiers. According NKWD reports in Tarnopl prison had been killed 575 prisoners, according those who went there and opened prison on begining of July 1941, amounts of victims was nearly 1000.

NKWD had made great pruges during June 1941 in all prison in Western Bialorusia and Ukraine. It had been killed about 10.000 (officialy admited in NKVD internal reports for Ł. Beria) or even 20.000 prisoners (rather too high figures, among civilians living near these places).
Among killed there were a few tens of first German PoW, captured in these first days of war too.

Regards
mw

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

The III/KG 51 had in fact contact in Stanisłwaów area only with 12. IAP of 64. IAD, not with 149. IAP (he and 247. IAP, 166. IAP fought versus Stab, I, II/KG 27, III/JG 77, I(J)/LG 2), as a wrongly mentined earlier. The whole 64. IAD had lost over 50% of its nominal strenght on 22.06.

The losses were heavy for 12. IAP too, which lost on the ground 36 fighters destroyed, damaged (only 4 were later repaired) plus 3 next were shot down of the 60 fighters: I-153 (45) and I-16 typ 5 (15).

12. IAP was on Bouszew airfield near Stanisławów. Pilots of 12. IAP had claimed 11 victories (3 fighters plus 8 bombers) on 22.06.

regards,
mw

Re: Losses of KG 51 on 22.06.41
 

Can anyone have daily combat diary (KTB) of III / KG 51 on 22 June 1941?

I wanted to spread the losses and victories over Ju 88 among Germans and Russians. However I do not have exact hour flight and the attack's place, so I can not do that.

For example 12. IAP was 9 times attacked on 22.06.41 by small formation 5-1 planes.

In addition to the pilots of the 12th IAP versus III/KG 51 fought also pilots from 87., 92. IAP, 62. SzAP, who also have some claimes too.

Regards,
mw