Need info: BF109 with checkerboard pattern on nose

[JBAviationArt]

Hi,

I have spoken with a B-17 tail gunner from the 351st BG 508th Sqdrn who
shot down a Bf109 with yellow and red checkerboard on the nose up to the cockpit. I have never seen or heard about such a paint job on a BF109. Earlier on the same mission he shot down an FW190. Here is some more data about the mission:

Aircraft# 42-97843
Mission# 178
28 Jul 1944 (Fri)
Pilot: Dreyer, Elmer J 0-697403
Sqdrn 508
Target Merseberg

The tail gunners name is Art Kemp.

Can anyone verify the paint scheme on the BF109? I am recreating the account as a painting for a magazine and I am concerned that if I go to "artist interpretation" that I may get it way wrong. I have not found anything and I am concluding that it was a personal (unrecorded) paint job. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

www.jbaviationart.com

[harrison987]

Hi!

The Me109 never had a checkbaord pattern on the nose. If you do a search wihtin this forum using the keyword "checkerboard", you will find a few threads on the subject.

When it came to markings, the Germans were fairly strict strict on what markings went where. Certain provisions were given to having a coloured (yellow) nose, nose band, oil cooler, etc. Some bands were wide...some thin...some noses not completely painted at all...slightly different placement, etc.

JG1 was famous for having the checkrboard nose in 1943. They constantly flew high altitude missions to intercept bombers of the 8th AF. As part of the "Defense of the Reich", JG1 started using distinctive coloured fuselage bands to as a quick identification in combat. The bands were abandoned during early 1944, however. The checkerboards were divided into black-white, black-red and black-yellow for the 1, 2 and 3 Staffeln respectively.

JG1 was stationed in Central and Western Germany from 1943-1945. I would almost say 100%, it was a Fw190, which was mis-ID'd as Me109...even a P-51 is a possibility. For sure not an Me109, though...


Mike

[drgondog]

Yellow and red checker pattern of course was also on the 357FG from March 1944 to end of war. Would not be the first 51 a bomber gunner shot down..

The first BD bombed heading S and rallied south of Merseburg near Erfurt before returning due west. Most of the LW reaction was from South toward Erfurt. The 355th FG engaged at Erfurt and 50 miles further west. I don't have my reference material so don't know what the 357FG was doing on 28 July but Leipzig and Merseburg took the brunt of 8th AF Heavies.

[Broncazonk]

Originally Posted by drgondog

Yellow and red checker pattern of course was also on the 357FG from March 1944 to end of war. Would not be the first P-51 a bomber gunner shot down...

After all these years, a surviving B-17 tail-gunner discovers that he shot down one of his own guys...

Might make for a more interesting painting though...

Bronc

[Tom Semenza]

The 357th also came to mind for me on the mention of the red and yellow checkered nose. However on consulting Merle Olmsted's books on the 357th FG no mention is made of any activity on July 28. Neither are any losses or claims listed for that date. The unit was very heavily engaged however on both the 29th and 30th.

[hucks216]

An interesting dilemma - if it does turn out to of been a P-51 would you tell the veteran or allow him to continue to believe it was an enemy aircraft? Does he know that you were planning a piece of artwork depicting the scene?