Need info: BF109 with checkerboard pattern on nose

[drgondog]

Yellow and red checker pattern of course was also on the 357FG from March 1944 to end of war. Would not be the first 51 a bomber gunner shot down..

The first BD bombed heading S and rallied south of Merseburg near Erfurt before returning due west. Most of the LW reaction was from South toward Erfurt. The 355th FG engaged at Erfurt and 50 miles further west. I don't have my reference material so don't know what the 357FG was doing on 28 July but Leipzig and Merseburg took the brunt of 8th AF Heavies.

[Broncazonk]

Originally Posted by drgondog

Yellow and red checker pattern of course was also on the 357FG from March 1944 to end of war. Would not be the first P-51 a bomber gunner shot down...

After all these years, a surviving B-17 tail-gunner discovers that he shot down one of his own guys...

Might make for a more interesting painting though...

Bronc

[Tom Semenza]

The 357th also came to mind for me on the mention of the red and yellow checkered nose. However on consulting Merle Olmsted's books on the 357th FG no mention is made of any activity on July 28. Neither are any losses or claims listed for that date. The unit was very heavily engaged however on both the 29th and 30th.

[hucks216]

An interesting dilemma - if it does turn out to of been a P-51 would you tell the veteran or allow him to continue to believe it was an enemy aircraft? Does he know that you were planning a piece of artwork depicting the scene?

[drgondog]

Tom - more than a few Mustangs were shot at by 8th BC gunners when no enemy aircraft were present. I know of two instances for the 355th, one on 26 April, 1944 when Bill Boulet was hit by a 1st BD B-17 while 'essing across the top of the High Sqdrn. He was kept in solitary confinement for three weeks as a suspected spy before another 355th pilot was captured three weeks after him and confirmed his ID.

Sumner Williams was hit by B-24 gunner on August 12 near Strasbourg and lost a couple of cylinders but was able to make it back to friendly lines in France.

No enemy fighters anywhere.

[ju55dk]

Well perhaps he did'nt shoot down anything? The claims from the gunners on the B-17's were at times wildly exagerated.

Junker

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by ju55dk

Well perhaps he did'nt shoot down anything? The claims from the gunners on the B-17's were at times wildly exagerated.

Junker

True - but the question was the ID of a red/yellow chechered nose on a perceived in-line engine fighter that he shot at..

I would be interesting to get the gunners recollection of the time and place of the encounter.

The 1st BD bombed Merseburg ~ 0900. At approximately 0920 six Me-109s attacked a box of the 1st BD B-17s just east of Mulhausen. My father was leading the 354FS when that happened and observed one Me-109 to blow up attacking the Forts and then he got on the tail of another one and chased him all the way to the deck where the 109 crashed and burned.

The 358FS/355th intercepted another gaggle of mixed 109s and 190s near Erfurt at the Rally point, also attacking the 1st BD at the Rally point. The 190 shot down by McElroy was almost certain to be Hirschfeld's.

So there were at least two recorded attacks between 0900 and 0920 by 109s from Merseburg to Mulhausen.