Lancaster ND969

[FrankieS]

Hi !

05 Ost S/RN-3 is a square 9 x 14 km wide at Germany (!), that is is pretty good depicted by this map:

http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.c...e=50000&icon=x


And PAPIERMUEHLE would be
05 Ost S/RO-9

http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.c...e=50000&icon=x


bye,
FrankieS

here some more info:
http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/bomber.php?id=6154

[Horst Weber]

Leslie !

Most indications are tracing to Hauptmann Kranz. Your father's LANCASTER took off at about 22:05 hrs at Little Staughton. At 23:46 hrs, Kranz reports his claim of a 4-engined bomber in the Luftwaffe grid square RN-3. The distance of the reported shooting up of Kranz and the crash location of your father's aircraft is only 38 km into Eastern direction. But those circumstances, in particular the the time-frame mean strictly, that the incident happened on the way to the target and not after "bomb away" from the target.

Best regards,

Horst Weber

[Leslie]

Hello Horst
I visited with my dad this weekend and he is firm in that his aircraft was shot down on the return trip and the time was between 1:30-1:45 AM GMT. He also says he is having difficulty with the departure time from Little Staughton and he says he can't remember any missions leaving that late in the evening. Sources here also confirm the time could be incorrect as a lot of that information was obtained from Chorley's book Bomber Command Losses and errors have been found before. I checked my dad's log book but no times were recorded.

Regards,

Leslie

[Smith]

Originally Posted by Leslie

They thought the fighter was a JU188, because they had never seen one like it and the guns fired upward at a 45 degree angle. Dad said at the time they were unaware that the JU188 existed and he finally saw and learned about them after the war.

Hello Leslie

My name is Don Smith and I am following up, and indeed will soon post on this forum, a similar query. In this case regarding my uncle who lost his life over Peenemunde in 1943.

Please accept that in what I say next I mean absolutely no disrespect, but I wonder if your father's memories are playing tricks on him, perhaps folding two different operations together into one whole?

Similarly the JU-188 nightfighter? I'd not be too sure about that.

All the best in your searches, regards Don

[Leslie]

Hi John
I'm not sure what you are referring to with respect to my father's memory or the JU188. Would you mind clarifying for me. I'm sure there has been no offense taken at any remarks. My dad has said that some things are difficult to remember. The one thing he is quite adamant about is the time he was hit, the fact he was on his way home to base. This has now been corroborated by several historians, ex bomber command people and some of the Squadron Orbs. the Orbs state target arrival time was scheduled for 0015hours so the likelihood of departure at 2205hrs is correct. Bear in mind some records do not record Greenwich Mean Time and as I stated before, my father did. Theo Boiten has come up with some other information regarding who might have shot his aircraft down. He does not believe it was Krantz at this juncture. I have sent him some additional information now so he can investigate further. This is a very interesting process for me and I cannot believe the information I have been provided with nor the assistance and comments from people around the world. So please do not feel badly about any comments or questions you may make or ask. It simply makes the research and questions to be asked far more interesting.
Kind Regards
Leslie

[Leslie]

Sorry Don, It's quite late here so I apologise for calling you John
Leslie

[Smith]

No problems. The memory is fallable is all that I was saying. And yes, my reference was to the time and/or the trip to/from the target.

And according to what little I've read, on the web and eslsewhere, there was no such thing as an operational JU-188 nachtjager. There were a handful of prototype or anyway test JU-188Rs (nightfighters), but they were not found to be an improvement over the JU-88 and the idea abandoned.

I did find on google a reference to an apparent sighting of a JU-88 with a JU-188 tail! But in the heat of combat who's to say.

And the 45degree cannon you refer to are/were schrage musik, a superb weapon system ...

regards Don

[Leslie]

Thanks Don
You could be right with respect to the JU188. Who knows in the heat of battle. My dad they had not seen an aircraft with the capabilty of approaching from below and firing upward at that angle which is probably why the assumption it might have been a JU188. If you are interested I will let you know what Theo Boiten has to say when he gets back to me.
Lucky you living in New Zealand. We made three trips to Rarotonga and Aitutaki but never made it to New Zealand. Still planning a trip that way in the future.
Regards
Leslie