20,000 WW2 Multiple Accident Files in UK

[Observer1940]

Andy

Thanks for that.

You are quite correct that the files of the Air Ministry P4 Casualty Section called "Casualty files" by the AHB are held and can be retrieved by the MOD / AHB / VA and other authorised Government Departments. I already have photocopy parts released regarding my grandfather from a 'P' numbered 1940 Air Ministry file after my MP wrote to a Minister in 2003. The information is extremely scant! I have been assured that I have all the pieces relating to the crash of P5044 which they still hold (several Teleprinted Casualty Signals and a brief letter as laid down in the King's Regs for Reporting a casualty only). Not the other information required by King's Regs No.1326.

However, the missing pieces, confirmed in the 1940 AMCO as being required by the Air Ministry Casualty Section are not on the P4 'P' numbered registered Air Ministry file, according to what I and the Tribunal Judge have been told earlier this year by the AHB and the Treasury Litigation Solicitors representing the MOD in the case.

You are also quite correct in the fact that an AIR series at The National Archives, Kew has already been allocated for a while now for the files of the P4 Casulty Section.

I am not excited about the release at the moment, because the Air Ministry were running two files for most RAF air crashes (excluding the AIB file) and the Judge has been told that the Accident files which appears to be the 'A' registered number files (A.108115/40 in my case) were destroyed at 50 years of age in line with MOD Policy and I and the Judge have been told the documents I requested, which I say ought to be on the 'P' Casualty file according to the 1940 AMCO are no longer held.

In 2004 a question was raised before Parliament (I will PM you a screen print from Hansard) confirming that Aircraft Board of Inquiry reports have been separated from the Main file during the preparation of the transfer of the Hayes Archives to Swadlincote. Staff at Hayes complained that it will not be possible to marry up removed parts, or find them easily after transfer.

I did discover that 20,000 WW2 (claimed to be unindexed) accident reports are in files on 4 pallets in a Lancashire store.

What people must realise is that some RAF crashes did not always have what we consider to be usual natural aviation related causes, but were lost due to friendly experiments and war action etc., which went wrong.

Mark

[Andy Saunders]

Mark

Thank you for that, which is all interesting stuff indeed.

I think the content of the Cas Files varies enormously. Sometimes the detail is scant, othertimes it contains a great deal of data - including in the cases of "missing" casualties for example. There will very often be reports on efforts to trace the casulaty post war, MREU report notes, correspondence etc etc. Either way, the content of many such files will surely be an invaluable and unique resource. Clearly, from your viewpoint, you are interested in just the one casualty with a close family link but the bigger picture for researchers and historians is significant, I feel.

As you may know, certain colonial air force casualty records are in the public domain and even available on-line. In contrast, we have a situation here where the AHB are now reluctant (or plain refuse) to supply names of casualties in some situations even although those names, generally, are in the public domain in such resources as squadron ORB's at TNA Kew. In many respects it appears the FOI Act is a two-edged sword with official government departments using it as a weapon not to release information rather than it being a vehicle for information to be released to the public. Well....thats my take on things, anyway!

[Observer1940]

Yes, I have seen some files elsewhere of RAF crashes which occurred in Britain and was also in the New Zealand Archives looking at 1940 crashes which occurred there, so I ordered up several files at random which have got everything from the initial Casualty Report to the official Inquiries, notes, policy, recomendations, medical reports etc.

I have decided to edit my post here and remove the casualty references, because my main reason for my research interest and application to the Information Tribunal Appeal was to get the facts and technical information from official sources surrounding the crash and not just the bare Casualty information.

The family living immediately opposite the crash site said that they were led to believe the Whitley had been hit by enemy fire (reference to friendly fire in the No.4 Group ORB) and veered to miss their house and got tangled in the balloon cable at the balloon site nearest their house.

15ft of the wing was reported as found in a field two miles away. Two files, vary with the three separate Squadron records (924; 930 and 77 Sqns) and also the letter sent to our family later in 1940 that only a singular balloon site was involved, which (according to the official AM map and site number quoted) is the balloon nearest the family's house.

When the 4 AMCOs were changed 29.8.40 to amend reporting an SOS immediately to the MLS at Fighter Command (MLS partly responsible for RAF Bomber movements) and that Aerodrome Obstructions must be notified to FO6 [the Air Ministry - Flying Control] London, immediately in an emergency, RAF Calshot were also to be told that they must have immediate notice to put an RAF Rescue Launch to sea, because they have to check and get authority from the Naval authorities.

The crew knew the proper SOS drill, also the Diversion drill to divert to another airfield, and also the Forced Landing drill as this was their 4th recorded emergency in two months!

Three chaps officially working on the defences stated that the wireless signals which were received by the aircraft would have been wrong.

Mark