Any known Ar196 losses for 17-6-44 ?

[Seaplanes]

You are correct. In the 100--- series there is a gap at least between 100385 and 100428. According to the Stammkennzeichen series
100385 had CT+KE and 100428 CT+KH. Consequently two more aircraft are there somewhere. Only rarely were there breaks in the middle of a Stammkennzeichen series. I have histories for both 100385 and 100428. I hope your friend could find more about the Fokker W.Nr. I only have seven aircraft in this series and that is not much to build on. Most of the Fokker production was delivered in 1944, but even for the first six months of this year, very few aircraft is mentioned with Fokker c/n's. Part of the problem is that in many cases only the last three digits of the W.Nr. was reported, making it impossible to know if it was an Arado-built or Fokker built aircraft. I hope someone can assist in this discussion, which by the way has turned completely off the original topic.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Seaplanes

I was hoping you were going to come to our rescue!
Sorry to say I can't add much to your excellent listing.

One WNr stated in Avions is 0514 which, as the one used by the British as VM748 (ex AM92), was used by the MAEE. However Phil Butler (confirming the WNr and AM92 code) states it became VM761. Since this is not very important for our expanded topic, I believe the WNr is, so far, the highest noted for a Warnemünde built airframe.

Must say I was not aware that RLM also were using the black out system in their WNr layout supplied to various manufactures.

Finally Avions claim there is a loss of WNr 7 (which I took to be 0007) on 18.11.1943. With the current listing this is not possible. However since WNr 1007 was w/o on another date, could this be 623007 and also the reason why you Seaplanes have the Fokker range starting at 623007?

Cheers
Stig

[Seaplanes]

The W.Nr. 0514, which should read 100514 in full, is the highest W.Nr. I have seen in the Arao Warnemünde series.

I also have the loss of W.Nr. 07 for 18.11.43. The unit for this aircraft was stated as Kdo.Flughafenbereich I/IV. Could this aircraft be an Arado 96 ?? I have other very good sources that does not mention this loss.

The reason for using 623007 for the Fokker series is that this is the lowest number I have recorded. The series commenced more likely with 623001.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Seaplanes

With regard to WNr 7 or 07 there are far to many possibillities if we start up an Ar 96 theory....

The stated unit is a strange one. Can't find it in Rosch's book. The meaning of Flughafen is pretty straightforward but in connection with bereich, which in my dictionary means both area and jurisdiction, makes little sense. Does a unit dealing with Airport Jurisdiction or perhaps Airport Security sound like a meaningful translation? Anyone?

Whatever it was I have to agree it doesn't sound like my first choice for using an Ar 196...

Cheers
Stig

[Seaplanes]

The term Flughafenbereich means simply a number of airfields within a specific geographical area and under a common command.

[ju55dk]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

Thanks Seaplanes

With regard to WNr 7 or 07 there are far to many possibillities if we start up an Ar 96 theory....

The stated unit is a strange one. Can't find it in Rosch's book. The meaning of Flughafen is pretty straightforward but in connection with bereich, which in my dictionary means both area and jurisdiction, makes little sense. Does a unit dealing with Airport Jurisdiction or perhaps Airport Security sound like a meaningful translation? Anyone?

Whatever it was I have to agree it doesn't sound like my first choice for using an Ar 196...

Cheers
Stig

The Ar 96 theory seems to be a god choise. Flughafenbereich (Airfield Regional Command) I/IV did not have any seaplanebases! It was in Russia from 1942 to 44!
There are units missing in Rosche's book!!!

Junker

[Hans Mcilveen]

According to Avions 146 the loss of W.Nr. 007 took place in the "Baie de Kajild". I have not been able to find this exact location. According to Michael Holm Flughafen-Bereichs-Kommando 1/IV was based in Albania from 9.1943 to 12.1943 and administered the two seaplane bases at Kumbor (Montenegro) and Durres (Albania). Not a place for advanced training with the Ar 96 but also no known Ar 196 units based there.

[ju55dk]

Originally Posted by Hans Mcilveen

According to Avions 146 the loss of W.Nr. 007 took place in the "Baie de Kajild". I have not been able to find this exact location. According to Michael Holm Flughafen-Bereichs-Kommando 1/IV was based in Albania from 9.1943 to 12.1943 and administered the two seaplane bases at Kumbor (Montenegro) and Durres (Albania). Not a place for advanced training with the Ar 96 but also no known Ar 196 units based there.

Well we have a conflict with the area here. According to Kommandobehörden und Truppenteile der Luftwaffe 1 bis 10 the FHB 1/IV was stationed at Poltawa and Shitomir end 1943!! The aircraft wether a Ar 96 or 196 was not for training, but for liason within the FHB!

Junker

[ju55dk]

Originally Posted by Seaplanes

You are correct. In the 100--- series there is a gap at least between 100385 and 100428. According to the Stammkennzeichen series
100385 had CT+KE and 100428 CT+KH. Consequently two more aircraft are there somewhere. Only rarely were there breaks in the middle of a Stammkennzeichen series. I have histories for both 100385 and 100428. I hope your friend could find more about the Fokker W.Nr. I only have seven aircraft in this series and that is not much to build on. Most of the Fokker production was delivered in 1944, but even for the first six months of this year, very few aircraft is mentioned with Fokker c/n's. Part of the problem is that in many cases only the last three digits of the W.Nr. was reported, making it impossible to know if it was an Arado-built or Fokker built aircraft. I hope someone can assist in this discussion, which by the way has turned completely off the original topic.

I do have Wnr. 386+387+388+389+390 the last one with Skz. CT+KJ. Then 428 with Skz. CT+KK!

Junker

[ju55dk]

I have been able to find the entry in school-losses but there is something "funny" about it.
First there is :
18.11.43 Kdo FHB. 1/IV E Bucht von Kanjld Absturtz inflg. Motorstörung Ju 88 Wnr. 474 100%. Crew unhurt!
same date wit repeat signs on unit and place Jägerbeschuss Ar 196 Wnr. 07 100%. F Uffz Rogge and B Ltn. Kellner both killed. Then entry written in hand, and hard to read:
Siehe Fl. Verbände von 26.11!
I have tried to find something in operationel losses without succes???


Junker