SeenotSt.6 Losses 1-11-1943

[Boris Ciglic]

W.Nr.991 was shot down by 1/Lt Stanley Lancaster of 57.FG. The other Do 24 was strafed by nine P-40's of 57.FG in Split/Spalato harbor.

Cheers,
Boris

[Seaplanes]

Thank you for additional information. Do 24 W.Nr. 991 and 992 I have with St.kz. GM+IJ and GM+IK respectively. They were the first two Do 24 delivered by SNCAN at Sartrouville outside Paris (formerly the CAMS-Potez factory) assembled mainly from parts delivered by Aviolanda. W.Nr. 991 was delivered on 30. November 1942 and 992 on 7. February 1943. The first true French-built Do 24, W.Nr. 1001 GI+GO, was delivered on 17. April 1943.
I know there are different opinions about the St.kz. of 991 and 992. Some have CM+IE and CM+IF.

[Brian Bines]

Thanks Guys for the additional information. It would seem that one Do 24 KK+LQ 2104 was strafed in the harbour and only one was shot down the aircraft of Uffz.Paul Losing. Looking at the Do24 site CM+IE wn 991(RLM 0039 ) is shown as being shot down over Spilt while CM+IS wn 996(RLM 0044) is just listed as being delivered to the Seenodienst with no other info. I could not find any other dates for incidents involving 0039 or 0044 which might have settled the matter. It would be tempting to go with CM+IE wn 991 as Losing's a/c but info. from Seaplanes is always really good ,

Regards
Brian Bines

[Stig Jarlevik]

Guys

The Do 24 site mentioned has basically all its production data from the book
Dornier 24 by Pieter van Wijngaarden and Prudent Staal.

In that book they list part of the CM+Ix STKZ twice, with different STKZ!

On pages 110 - 114 they say the following
Aviolanda built: AVIO 108 (RLM WNr 0035) to AVIO 116 (RLM WNr 0043) were CM+IA to CM+II
SNCAN assembled c/n 991 (RLM WNr 0044) was CM+IJ
Aviolanda built: AVIO 117 (RLM WNr 0045) to AVIO 132 (RLM WNr 0060) were CM+IK to CM+IZ.

On page 122 they say
RLM WNr 991 to RLM WNr 1000 were CM+IE to CM+IN

Both cannot be correct!
Why the site has opted for connecting the listed RLM WNr 991-1000 with the Aviolanda built examples and not the other way around, is something I don't know. No idea which is correct either.

To me it seems the two authors has not fully understood the production numbers they had access to and to solve it I think Seaplanes should see what his sources says. If Matti is around maybe he can check the NVM (if it exists)?

Cheers
Stig

[Seaplanes]

My Sources for the French Production at SNCAN is:
Report dated 12. December 1944 by Lieut. M.A. Moit, USMC on the Production of Dornier Do 24 Flying Boat in France. This report include a "Tableau CLE des immatriculations d'appareils Do 24 suivant". This list include the internal W.Nr. by SNCAN and the corresponding RLM W.Nr.
SNCAN W.Nr. RLM W.Nr.
1-2 991-992
3-12 1001-1010
13-17 1031-1035
18-27 1056-1065
28-32 1071-1075
33-40 1101-1108
41-47 1131-1137
48-57 1151-1160
Unfortunately the St.kz. are not listed.
The second main Source is the KTB's of Gen.d.Lw.b.Ob.d.M./O.Qu
monthly from september 1939 up to June 1944.

In addition to the book by Wijngaarden and Staal, there is another book containing an Aviolanda production list "Verkennen en Bewaken, Dornier Do 24K vliegbooten van de Marineluchtwaartdienst" by N. Gweldhof, s'Gravenhage 1979. Both books contain a number of clear errors.

Finally, the St.kz. in the series CM+IA to CM+IZ was used on the RLM W.Nr. 0035 to 0060, all produced by Aviolanda. I have no knowledge from contemporary documents about the internal W.Nr. apparently used by Aviolanda, or if this was made up by somebody decades ago.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Björn

Very valuable information indeed. Thanks for the SNCAN numbers and the corresponding RLM WNr!!

Indeed I have also wondered why there would be any connection between Aviolanda and SNCAN (why would RLM issue two WNr for the same aircraft (ie 0044/991). As you quite rightly say, the so called c/n of Aviolanda is now really put into doubt and I am not sure what to do with them.
If Nico Geldhof is correct in his book, Aviolanda used their own c/n up to 73 (the last Do 24 accepted by MLD). Possibly someone then made an educated guess and assumed Aviolanda continued to issue such numbers. If they did, no idea, but the listing in Wijngaarden/Staal's book now seems rather suspect.

Thanks also for confirming the STKZ batch CM+IA to CM+IZ and that it had nothing to do with the SNCAN production.

Moving over to the SNCAN production.
It seems to me the first ones (WNr 991-1001) were CI+GE to CI+GO.
Norbert seems quite adamant that he's got it right....
Any comments on those?

Cheers
Stig