A-20 17 VA

[HGabor]

1: yes
2: no known grave
3: no idea

[researcher111]

As into his precise reports also here I would be very
careful same as into his other JG52 collegues ,Russian and
American counterparts claims during WWII.

Example :

Out of his 12 claims over Moldova and Romania only
5 are completely accurate including a Lib of 376th BG.

On 31.5.44 he claimed at Brusila a PE-2 though this
aircraft was on engine test flight unarmmed which attacked
and claimed by numerous other pilots of his group. Same
about the remaining IL-2's , P-39 and YAK 7 claimed by
him while on 27.6.44 no IL-2 were lost by 5 and 17 VA !

PS : the PE-2 was in dirty configuration for landing
( flaps and gear extended) when attacked by
3 ME-109

Alex K

[Nick Hector]

Originally Posted by researcher111

As into his precise reports also here I would be very
careful same as into his other JG52 collegues ,Russian and
American counterparts claims during WWII.

Example :

Out of his 12 claims over Moldova and Romania only
5 are completely accurate including a Lib of 376th BG.

On 31.5.44 he claimed at Brusila a PE-2 though this
aircraft was on engine test flight unarmmed which attacked
and claimed by numerous other pilots of his group. Same
about the remaining IL-2's , P-39 and YAK 7 claimed by
him while on 27.6.44 no IL-2 were lost by 5 and 17 VA !

PS : the PE-2 was in dirty configuration for landing
( flaps and gear extended) when attacked by
3 ME-109

Alex K

Hi Alex, are there any other details that you can share with us?
Was this Pe-2 from 511 ORAP, 5 VA? Crew of pilot Dyadov HSU

[HGabor]

I checked my lists, but unfortunately my very first 511 ORAP Pe-2 loss record is for crashlanded Pe-2 on, or around September 11, 1944. (S/N: 2/150, engines: 325-576 and 63-31, авария, сдан в 109 БАО на запчасти.)

I have their losses AFTER this date, but no records for May-June.

[Nick Hector]

Originally Posted by HGabor

I checked my lists, but unfortunately my very first 511 ORAP Pe-2 loss record is for crashlanded Pe-2 on, or around September 11, 1944. (S/N: 2/150, engines: 325-576 and 63-31, авария, сдан в 109 БАО на запчасти.)

I have their losses AFTER this date, but no records for May-June.

Hi Gabor,

Do you have any to share that were the result of German fighter action?

...You know how much this fascinates me

[HGabor]

Hi Nick,

Yes, I have a few, but most of them just: "crashlanded", or "missing". Hard to determine the actual cause. It is a lot easier to check by date and see if there was any losses.

I have the full list of planes in 511 ORAP for May 1, 1945 by AC serials, engine serials & tail numbers (markings):

24 Pe-2s
2 UPe-2s (trainers)
1 Po-2 (messenger) biplane


For other dates I have the full list of 511 ORAP planes by serials only. For the same serials I assume markings (and perhaps one, or both engines) were the same as on May 1, 1945:

October 1, 1944: 24 Pe-2, 1 UPe-2, 3 Po-2
January 1, 1945: 24 Pe-2, 1 UPe-2
April 1, 1945: 25 Pe-2

(Lots of changes, transfers, etc. Same no. of planes does not mean they had no losses. Eg. 24 planes - 3 losses + 3 new planes are still = 24!)

Gabor

[Nick Hector]

Originally Posted by HGabor

Hi Nick,

Yes, I have a few, but most of them just: "crashlanded", or "missing". Hard to determine the actual cause. It is a lot easier to check by date and see if there was any losses.

I have the full list of planes in 511 ORAP for May 1, 1945 by AC serials, engine serials & tail numbers (markings):

24 Pe-2s
2 UPe-2s (trainers)
1 Po-2 (messenger) biplane


For other dates I have the full list of 511 ORAP planes by serials only:

October 1, 1944: 24 Pe-2, 1 UPe-2, 3 Po-2
January 1, 1945: 24 Pe-2, 1 UPe-2
April 1, 1945: 25 Pe-2

(Lots of changes, transfers, etc.)

Gabor

Cheers, Gabor,

Can you perhaps confirm:

Heinrich Tammen's claim of 21.9.44/1715?
Birkner's claim of 17.10.44/1500?
Barkhorn claimed one one on 24.11.44 but no timing is given...
Manfred Leisebein on 18.1.45/1500?

Nick