Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?

[Franek Grabowski]

Well, well, well. A typical answer.
Let's see what we have here.
1.
German fighter losses are compared to Allied claims, the latter including other types like bombers, transports, etc.
2.
Two months of operations (out of about two years) of 8 AF are compared to two (different!) months (out of about five and a half years) of RAF operations in Europe and general conclusions are drawn for the whole duration of war.
3.
There is a reference to an old and outdated book (Fighter over Tunisia) which contains plenty of errors and is to be completely rewritten.
4.
'Detailed investigation' of few cases of US overclaim in MTO vs no analysis of any combat on ETO. Of course this allowed the author to draw a general conclusion again.
Still, I see no proof for the thesis, instead I see a lot of incompetence.
I would love to see an explanation what had happenned to the aircraft downed by 56 FG on 22 May 1944 - obviously Mr Prien did a serious error having missed several German losses. Apparently he did so on 7 June 1944 as well. But I do not expect a detailed answer but another apples vs oranges.

I'm sorry if I don't have time to list more examples, but I can only establish that when I earlier today asked Franek to provide me with examples and sources to his statement about low moral in a certain air unit, he rather rudly told me that he refused to do so (claiming that he had provided me with such information previously, which is not true).

Now you are either lying or never bothered to read my arguments. I mentioned discipline problems of 611 ShAP in several discussions with you and referenced to particular documents. Now I am too lazy to check references if you do not care about them.
Oh, one more thing. You claim you never got any sources from me. I have just checked your article, 'The effect of Allied numerical superiority in the air over Normandy in 1944', and saw what you wrote about Weber.
Direct quote is: 'Due to a Polish aviation enthusiast, Weber was shot down in a combat with only four Polish Mustangs, but I have in vain asked to see the source to that claim.'
Well, a lie again, because you know very well that my article 'Jour J+1 – Le grand jour du 133 Wing' does include detailed analysis of the combat as well as detailed sources. The fact that you did not bother to read the article does not mean the reference does not exist. I would only like to remind you that whenever someone asked for yellow 'von Graff's' Fw 190, your only reply was - 'buy my book'. My answer is - buy my article and have balls to call me by my name and not as an anonymous 'Polish aviation enthusiast'.

[Christer Bergström]

Hello I more or less agreed with Christer on USAAF,

Yes, that's a fairly well known phenomenon for those who have studied the topic closely.

but IIRC RAF got its claim procedures more reliable later on.

As above. However, we have to take into consideration that during the period when RAF Fighter Command saw the bulk of all air combats it was involved in, and when the majority of its claims were made - 1940 - 1942 - RAF Fighter Command made extensive overclaims.

In 1941, RAF Fighter Command was credited with 909 aerial victories while actual German aircraft losses were 183. I have already showed some examples of RAF Fighter Command overclaiming in 1942, and the rate of RAF Fighter Command's overclaims in 1940 is well-known. Overclaiming continued into 1943. Certain RAF units also made multiple overclaims on several occasions during the air war over Normandy in 1944, although I agree that RAF got its claim accuracy more reliable late in the war.