Any known Ar196 losses for 17-6-44 ?

[byron-]

According "Luftwaffe Codes Marking & Units 1939-1945" by Harry Rosch

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Guys

WNr 1960290 is not in my list either...
Perhaps I should say, before anyone thinks I have a perfect 196 list, that what I am looking at is a loss list in Avions!

As I said in my first e-mail, the quoted WNr looks very strange. Can either Dave Wadman himself, or perhaps Seaplanes make a direct comment please??

Cheers
Stig

[Seaplanes]

I have the following W.Nr. blocks for the Arado Ar 196:
W.Nr. 2589 - 2592 4 Ar 196V-1 to V-4 prototypes by Arado, Brandenburg.
W.Nr. 2519 - 2521 3 Ar 196B-0 pre-production series, by Arado Brandenburg.
W.Nr. 2522 - 2524 3 Ar 196A-0 pre-production series, by Arado Brandenburg.
Please do not ask me why these numbers are lower than those for the prototypes.

W.Nr. 0011 - 0030 20 Ar 196A-1 by Arado Warnemünde.

W.Nr. 0031 was possibly not used or may have been tested to destruction before delivery, a so called Bruchzelle.

W.Nr. 0032 - 0131 100 Ar 196A-2 (including the last 16 converted to A-4 standard) by Arado Warnemünde.

W.Nr. 0133 - 0211 80 Ar 196A-3 by Arado Warnemünde.

W.Nr. 0212 - not known 228 Ar 196A-5 by Arado Warnemünde. At some point in this series the W.Nr. was given as i.e. 100342, this seems to have been used until the series was completed. This series also seems to include a number of aircraft actually delivered as A-3 versions.

W.Nr. 02301001 - 02301021 21 Ar 196A-3 by SNCASO, St. Nazaire.

W.Nr. 623007 - 623183 66 Ar 196A-5 by Fokker. The W.Nr. blocks in this series are not known to me.

Although this list has its shotcomings, it does explain the use of the various W.Nr. blocks.

[Hans Mcilveen]

Thank you for the explanation, Seaplanes.
So both of the losses supplied by David Wadman would fit the WNr. list after all. It would also mean there were significant gaps in the numbers assigned. Since the total production is a known variable there is a gap of 44 between 100384 and 100429 in my list (basically Avions plus some other sources). If 100505 is correct then there is also a gap of 67 between 100437 and 100505. Do you concur?
The same would apply to the Fokker production. An author friend of mine is working in Dutch archives investigating the Fokker factory during the war, among other things. I have asked him to notify me if he finds anything concrete on Arado production numbers.

Regards,

Hans

[Seaplanes]

You are correct. In the 100--- series there is a gap at least between 100385 and 100428. According to the Stammkennzeichen series
100385 had CT+KE and 100428 CT+KH. Consequently two more aircraft are there somewhere. Only rarely were there breaks in the middle of a Stammkennzeichen series. I have histories for both 100385 and 100428. I hope your friend could find more about the Fokker W.Nr. I only have seven aircraft in this series and that is not much to build on. Most of the Fokker production was delivered in 1944, but even for the first six months of this year, very few aircraft is mentioned with Fokker c/n's. Part of the problem is that in many cases only the last three digits of the W.Nr. was reported, making it impossible to know if it was an Arado-built or Fokker built aircraft. I hope someone can assist in this discussion, which by the way has turned completely off the original topic.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Seaplanes

I was hoping you were going to come to our rescue!
Sorry to say I can't add much to your excellent listing.

One WNr stated in Avions is 0514 which, as the one used by the British as VM748 (ex AM92), was used by the MAEE. However Phil Butler (confirming the WNr and AM92 code) states it became VM761. Since this is not very important for our expanded topic, I believe the WNr is, so far, the highest noted for a Warnemünde built airframe.

Must say I was not aware that RLM also were using the black out system in their WNr layout supplied to various manufactures.

Finally Avions claim there is a loss of WNr 7 (which I took to be 0007) on 18.11.1943. With the current listing this is not possible. However since WNr 1007 was w/o on another date, could this be 623007 and also the reason why you Seaplanes have the Fokker range starting at 623007?

Cheers
Stig

[Seaplanes]

The W.Nr. 0514, which should read 100514 in full, is the highest W.Nr. I have seen in the Arao Warnemünde series.

I also have the loss of W.Nr. 07 for 18.11.43. The unit for this aircraft was stated as Kdo.Flughafenbereich I/IV. Could this aircraft be an Arado 96 ?? I have other very good sources that does not mention this loss.

The reason for using 623007 for the Fokker series is that this is the lowest number I have recorded. The series commenced more likely with 623001.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Seaplanes

With regard to WNr 7 or 07 there are far to many possibillities if we start up an Ar 96 theory....

The stated unit is a strange one. Can't find it in Rosch's book. The meaning of Flughafen is pretty straightforward but in connection with bereich, which in my dictionary means both area and jurisdiction, makes little sense. Does a unit dealing with Airport Jurisdiction or perhaps Airport Security sound like a meaningful translation? Anyone?

Whatever it was I have to agree it doesn't sound like my first choice for using an Ar 196...

Cheers
Stig

[Seaplanes]

The term Flughafenbereich means simply a number of airfields within a specific geographical area and under a common command.

[ju55dk]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

Thanks Seaplanes

With regard to WNr 7 or 07 there are far to many possibillities if we start up an Ar 96 theory....

The stated unit is a strange one. Can't find it in Rosch's book. The meaning of Flughafen is pretty straightforward but in connection with bereich, which in my dictionary means both area and jurisdiction, makes little sense. Does a unit dealing with Airport Jurisdiction or perhaps Airport Security sound like a meaningful translation? Anyone?

Whatever it was I have to agree it doesn't sound like my first choice for using an Ar 196...

Cheers
Stig

The Ar 96 theory seems to be a god choise. Flughafenbereich (Airfield Regional Command) I/IV did not have any seaplanebases! It was in Russia from 1942 to 44!
There are units missing in Rosche's book!!!

Junker