Most Representative Luftwaffe Pilot?

[Jan Gazda]

I must admit it is very funny to read such a passionate lecture of moral values from a member of a nation which invented the widespread use of concentration camps and under which enlightened reign around forty million India’s inhabitants have died in reoccurring famines under total indolence of the government. From this point of view the only difference between Nazi regime and British monarchy is just the fact that the British have got away with it.

With the distance of 60 years it is very convenient to make harsh judgments on individuals that had to make decisions under circumstances we can’t imagine. Obviously the Wehrmacht and the Luftwaffe were waging aggressive war and have committed countless atrocities and the Third Reich had brutally oppressed the minorities under their reign. I do not think anyone with common sense disputes that. The question is what real options an average soldier had. Mutiny? Defection? None of those promised very optimistic outcomes for the individual itself and its family. So they just kept fighting till the end.

However, I think this thread has drifted far away from its original topic ( which was pretty obscure anyway) and we should get back to discussing what “representative” means.

Jan

[ChrisS]

Originally Posted by Jan Gazda

I must admit it is very funny to read such a passionate lecture of moral values from a member of a nation which invented the widespread use of concentration camps and under which enlightened reign around forty million India’s inhabitants have died in reoccurring famines under total indolence of the government. From this point of view the only difference between Nazi regime and British monarchy is just the fact that the British have got away with it.

The question is what real options an average soldier had. Mutiny? Defection? None of those promised very optimistic outcomes for the individual itself and its family. So they just kept fighting till the end.

However, I think this thread has drifted far away from its original topic ( which was pretty obscure anyway) and we should get back to discussing what “representative” means.

Jan

The difference between the Nazis and the British Empire?? Please do tell which history books you have been reading? The invention of the British 'Concentration Camps' by liberal commentators bears no resemblance in form OR substance to the Nazi death camps. In case you have not realized Indians have died by the millions in famines before the British came and after we left. Point of fact: were it not for the construction of roads and railways throughout India still in use today, those famines would have been far, far worse. And the indifference? Not by the British but by the local indigenous rulers who were profiteering from the shortage of food. The very great good that came about from the British Empire, literacy and education, peace, greater life expectancy, justice systems, the establishment of indigenous middle classes, infrastructure, modern agriculture and industry seems to have been forgotten. Look at the awful state of ex British Africa now compared to when the benign British Empire was flourishing. Reality Check.

What could the German soldier have done? I agree a hard question. Obey orders of course, that seemed to be the stock answer when asked to account for heinous crimes. And whilst the victories rolled on, cheer along with the others, as von Stauffenberg, Beck, Von Kluge, Stulpnagel and most of the other July '44 putchists did. It took the resistance of the free world to 'turn' these fine gentlemen into activists. Where oh where do we see active voices of discent in the German Forces raised in repugnance of the crushing of countries like Norway, Holland and Denmark all of whom had expended considerable humanitarian aid to German following the Great War. No, because the German Officer Corps were steadfastly behind Adolf Hitler from day one all the way until things started to go wrong. For every jerrycan filled, bullet fired, rollbahn rail mended, bomb dropped, shell expended and torpedo loosed then the capacity of the Nazi oppression was either increased or upheld therefore every German soldier played a part in the genocide.

Oh I just recalled that an expresion/euphenism that apparently was very common in Germany during the war: it was a curious finger gesture that that began with the index finger making a circle in the air that gradually continued in an upwards direction simulating smoke going up a chimney. I gather this gesture could be made when somebody had disappeared, perhaps as a guest of the Gestapo, or when somebody had died or as a warning to somebody to stop doing something that could be construed as being anti-state or defeatist. Smoke going up the chimney from something burning? Maybe from a death camp's chimney? But the ordinary German soldier didn't know anything about the death camps? Did they?