Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941

[Franek Grabowski]

Thanks. A little bit of thinking and the answer is Manston. The obvious question that comes to my mind is what was the battle formation the 601 flew back in 1941? I believe this varied significantly between squadrons or wings?

[timothy]

Wish I could make your day - but no!!

= Tim

[timothy]

Franek - you're pushing it a bit!

On Sweeps, so far as I recall, we were still in vic formation. On shipping strikes etc, we would go out in pairs.

[Franek Grabowski]

Tim
Well, that was my conclusion after checking several diagrams and discussing the issue with Doug Tidy as well as some researchers. I know for sure that for example 306 Polish Squadron flew several interrim battle formations in the first half of 1941, including such a weird thing as a vic of pairs with a pair behind and above, this flown for convoy patrols. As far as I know, most popular battle formations during the Battle of Britain were line astern with green section of weavers and vic formation with yellow section of weavers. Unfortunatelly, I was unable to verify if distance between aircraft varied and when a weaving section was cancelled. I know that in 1942 a formation of sections flying line astern stepped down each was quite popular in Fighter Command but then I am not sure when a finger four formation was finally introduced as a standard.
For me it is a terrible mess!

[timothy]

Don't talk to me about weavers - twice in 2 days (1940) I was top weaver & lost the squadron. Careless?

[Fairlop]

Dear Tim,

Did you fly Airacobras with the 601 Sqn ?

Regards,
Michal

[Franek Grabowski]

Nope. Polish airmen always described the most common line astern formation with weavers as idiotic and useless to say the least. Apart of that, sending an unexperienced airman (I assume you still was, being few months on the squadron) for this position was indeed carelessness of the commander and command but not yours. It is obvious that young pilots have had enough problems with keeping in the formation, and giving them additional task of weaving and watching back was just senseless if not dangerous. You have survived to fight another day, and that is most important, especially as I guess you had about 300 hrs total flying time.

[timothy]

Michal - no. Franek - not far off - 225.

But, actually, I prided myself on my station keeping. A lot better than my marksmanship.
It was only when there was a communiations loss, & the Squadron rushed off in the other direction, that I became stranded. Amazing how, in a flash, the sky is empty!!

What still makes me squirm with embarassment is the fact that I had to take people like Kut, Jicha, Prihoda & the like for formation practice. Dear God, what next?? = Tim

[Franek Grabowski]

225 hours?! That is dramatically low, especially comparing to later 600 hrs training. I also note, what has been noted before, that too much faith was put on a radio communication and that in general British pilots were untrained with making visual contact and observations. I guess that the lot you had to learn flying formation had a much higher flying time, and that they have learned to keep visual contact with the formation all the time. Otherwise I bet they switched off r/t, as nobody would understand an excited Briton over a HF set then in use, especially speaking essentially no English.
How about your training at the OTU? I suppose you had some 40 hrs, but would they learn you anything but some Hurricane flying? My question, because later in the year RAF switched for operational training in resting squadrons, where experience was more up to date.

[timothy]

Sorry about diluting this thread, but I should reply to questions.

• Radio. Can’t think how we coped with the old HF radio & the archaic Are you receiving me? are you receiving me? routine. Actually, all signals in formation were given by hand. Strange – I don’t recall any of the Czechs being lost for words. Excited Briton? Never! I thought it was the Poles who were the excited ones? I have to recall here that my abiding memory of our Dispersal Hut was the smell of burning Perspex – the ‘boys’ were at their daily practice of making jewellery from broken canopies!!
• Hours? OTU? You’re joking? 170 on Tiger Moths, Hawker Harts & Hinds, 2 hours on a Miles Master & then the Hurricane – which was a Hind with the top wing taken off & a retractable undercarriage! First operational patrol 15 hours later. Very exciting but not very educative!
• Training. Not only did those like Karel Kuttelwascher have 5 times the experience, but also in combat!! I was about to question why he was not a ‘BofB pilot’, but found that my first patrol with him was in November.
• Visual Contact? Yes – a good thing. But, as I said, in the 10 seconds that you were searching the skies around you, the squadron had disappeared without you hearing any instruction. Be fair – for the 40 minutes before, I was doing an exemplary job!!

= Tim