Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by timothy

Sorry about diluting this thread, but I should reply to questions.

Well, I am more than eager to go on another thread, of course if you like to discuss those matters any further.

• Radio. Can’t think how we coped with the old HF radio & the archaic Are you receiving me? are you receiving me? routine. Actually, all signals in formation were given by hand. Strange – I don’t recall any of the Czechs being lost for words. Excited Briton? Never! I thought it was the Poles who were the excited ones? I have to recall here that my abiding memory of our Dispersal Hut was the smell of burning Perspex – the ‘boys’ were at their daily practice of making jewellery from broken canopies!!

You should hear comments of Poles flying with RAF Squadrons! I suppose this is a simple foreign language illusion, as I experienced it discussing virtues of Norwegian and Polish language. I have claimed that Norwegian is very fast language for a Pole, while Norwegian claimed that it was actually Polish a faster language!
Anyway, in the early period it was common for Poles to switch off R/T as with their knowledge of English and quality of transmission it was more distracting than helpful for them.
Later in the war I think it was common to both Britons and Poles to complain about excited Americans, but I think it is another story.
Jewellery from Perspex? Never heard of it!

• Hours? OTU? You’re joking? 170 on Tiger Moths, Hawker Harts & Hinds, 2 hours on a Miles Master & then the Hurricane – which was a Hind with the top wing taken off & a retractable undercarriage! First operational patrol 15 hours later. Very exciting but not very educative!

I am just looking at a copy of a log book of a Polish airman, who while at 6 OTU between 16 and 30 July 1940 did some 30 hours on Hurricanes flying several exercises. The fact is that apart of 14 hours on Tigers and Hector he had amassed some 2000 hours, so I believe his training should be shorter rather than longer. I have a copy of log book of another pilot, who indeed was posted to an operational Squadron in October 1940, but the unit was based in Northern England or Scotland I believe, and played a role of an OTU actually. So, your training indeed seems rather short to say the least!

• Training. Not only did those like Karel Kuttelwascher have 5 times the experience, but also in combat!! I was about to question why he was not a ‘BofB pilot’, but found that my first patrol with him was in November.

Indeed, most of the Czechoslovak and Polish airmen had accumulated substantial flying time. For example, Stanisław Skalski, who had a meteoric career with 501 Sqn, during his training and 1 year peace time service with PAF has amassed 600 hrs plus some 26 hrs of combat flying during two weeks of Polish Campaign. I think it did the difference. And indeed most of the Czechoslovak and Polish airmen spend the Battle on training in British procedures and English language.

• Visual Contact? Yes – a good thing. But, as I said, in the 10 seconds that you were searching the skies around you, the squadron had disappeared without you hearing any instruction. Be fair – for the 40 minutes before, I was doing an exemplary job!!

I am fair, the job was for the most experienced airmen and even they could make a mistake. Please note that such an experienced airman as Gabby Gabreski did not notice a Fw 190 just in front of him during his very first sortie on ETO. He needed some 20 hours of operational flying as a wingman to learn practical side of the trade.
I stand by my comments, in my opinion you was by then not experienced enough for such a position and it was also a clear irresponsibility of the commander not to keep care where his weaver is. You could well have been bounced by Messerschmitts and unable to send a warning by radio. What then?

Going back to Circusses, did you differentiate various wings by their formation? I mean if by seeing a formation you could say it is Duxford, Northolt or Hornchurch?
Also, do you remember P/O Ryszard Malczewski? He was posted to 601 in May 1941 you could have been just in time to celebrate his and Ogilvie's claim for a probable Ju 52.

All the best

[timothy]

Radio, warning? Good point. And, of course, I did not know that I had no radio.

Other wings? Not to my knowledge, & we were never close enough to compare.

Malczewski? Of course! Look carefully - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...4/RAF2/601.jpg

And here are some of the boys -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../RAF2/6012.jpg


SORRY - wrong way around, but I'm not changing them!









http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...4/RAF2/601.jpg

[Andy Fletcher]

Hi Timothy,

Thanks for sharing the scans of your log book/photos with us.

May I ask your surname and between what dates did you serve with 197 Sqn.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

[timothy]

Does this answer?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...AF2/potted.jpg

[Andy Fletcher]

It certainly does. Many thanks for the quick response.

Cheers

Andy Fletcher

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by timothy

Malczewski? Of course! Look carefully - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...4/RAF2/601.jpg

Excellent! Do you have a full caption for this photo?
Malczewski was the best pal of my friend's uncle, unfortunatelly he passed away over 20 years ago. I am curious if he was a memorable character?
PS I have just found a patrol report of 26 June 1941 - a Lysander escort. Would you like a copy?

[timothy]

From earlier - JU52? Tell me more.

Lysander escort? Yes please. Another rescue operation.

Caption? This is the best I can do. Can you fill in more?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../RAF2/6013.jpg

Apart from Malczewski (& Manak) our other 'tourists' were Himr, Maras, Mares, Drbolav & Michalek.

Personality? Regrettably, no. All of them were 'jolly good chums'! At 20, I wasn't much into assessing character.

= Tim

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by timothy

From earlier - JU52? Tell me more.

On 22 May about noon Ogilvie and Malczewski got a Ju 52 flying at 300 feet over France. They put some good bursts into it but did not notice its crash, probably due to weather. I suppose there were some pints in a local pub or in the officers' mess but I am not sure if you have been already posted there.

Lysander escort? Yes please. Another rescue operation.

I will scan the report tomorrow. It does not provide too many details, not even note it was an ASR mission, but specifies names of the airmen involved. For me it was interesting that you have had a mix of Mk IIA, IIB and IIC Hurricanes at one time.

Caption? This is the best I can do. Can you fill in more?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../RAF2/6013.jpg

Apart from Malczewski (& Manak) our other 'tourists' were Himr, Maras, Mares, Drbolav & Michalek.

I am not sure, but I think the man between Manak and Ruston could be Jan Maras. I am not very good in face recognition though. Interestingly, if it is him, I do not note 'Poland' badges nor Polish pilots badge, and RAF wings are on the wrong side of thge chest. I will ask my Czech friends if they recognise any of theirs.

Personality? Regrettably, no. All of them were 'jolly good chums'! At 20, I wasn't much into assessing character.

I rather mean some memorable stories or anecdotes. I bet there were plenty of various incidents involving those airmen.

[Fairlop]

Hi,

What a nice photo !
The man between Chivers and Manak is one of several Czechs with the 601 Sqn in 1940-42 period, Frantisek Mares, later DFM.
I will check others.

Regards,
Michal

[Fairlop]

Tim,

There were these Czechs with the Squadron, in your period:
P/O Rudolf Borovec
P/O Karel Drbohlav
F/L Jaroslav Himr
Sgt Josef Kohout
F/O Jiri Manak, later flew Typhoons too
Sgt Vladimir Michalek

It seems to be you remember mainly Manak from them. A reason ?

Michal