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Old 8th January 2015, 00:07
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Ar 196 losses on 2 January 1942

Hello,

On 2 January 1942 4 Spitfires of 602 Sqn on a Rhubard to France met over the Channel two German aircraft identified as "He 114s" and claimed both shot down at 1350 and 1400 hrs off Le Treport, but the Spitfire Vb P8722 was hit by return fire. His Norwegian pilot, Kapt. Jens Schjelderup Hertzberg, ditched after the engine cut but was lost.

According to one source, these "He 114" were in fact Ar 196 of BoGr 196. I would like to identify them, if they were shot down as the RAF pilots claimed.

A possible ID for one of them may be the WNr 148 that was according to a list of Ar 196 losses in Avions n°146 lost on 2 January 1942 in an air battle in sector 69/05 Ost. Fw Hilarius Kuhn (pilot) killed, no other crew name.

Thanks in advance
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Old 8th January 2015, 01:14
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Adam Adam is offline
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Re: Ar 196 losses on 2 January 1942

I don't have any other Ar 196 loss than the one you mention but can add it was T3+EK of 1./196. I have the loss listed as Pl.Qu 0169/05 Ost though. (source: Gen.Qu loss lists).
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Old 8th January 2015, 12:31
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Ar 196 losses on 2 January 1942

Thanks Adam,

Your position 0169/05 Ost is right where the RAF claims were made.

Do you have data about the second crew of the Ar 196 ?
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Old 8th January 2015, 17:27
Seaplanes Seaplanes is offline
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Re: Ar 196 losses on 2 January 1942

The only seaplane lost on this date, 2. January 1942, was Ar 196A-3 W.Nr. 0148, T3+EK of 1./B.Fl.St. 196. It was reported missing on a transfer flight from Schellingwoude (Amsterdam) to Brest, in Pl.Qu. 0169/05 Ost.
It was only the pilot on board, Fw. Hilarius Kuhn, who was also reported missing. It has later been established that the plane was shot down by Spitfires of No. 602 Sq. RAF. By mistake the plane was reported by the RAf as a He 114. Finally to the unit code of this aircraft. 1./196 used both H and K as Staffel letters because of the high number of aircraft in this unit, usually well over 20.
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Old 9th January 2015, 16:59
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Ar 196 losses on 2 January 1942

Thanks seaplanes, a complete answer to my question and more !
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Old 9th January 2015, 19:31
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Re: Ar 196 losses on 2 January 1942

Wonder how, without a rear-gunner, Spit managed to be shot-down, the Ar196 chased it ??

Rémi
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Old 9th January 2015, 21:32
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Re: Ar 196 losses on 2 January 1942

It could be that the Spitfire pilots thought they had the upper hand to such a degree that they handled carelessly. The Ar 196A-3 had two 20 mm wing
guns and it would take just a short burst to "kill" an enemy aircraft.
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Old 10th January 2015, 04:04
brewerjerry brewerjerry is offline
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Re: Ar 196 losses on 2 January 1942

Hi
Could the second aircraft, the one claimed shot down, but not shot down have been carrying a rear gunner ?
cheers
Jerry
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