Whereabouts of Me 109 G-10/U4 W.Nr. 613029

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hello to all!

In the excellent publication "Messerschmitt Bf 109G-10/U4. Production & Operational service", Luftwaffe over Czech territory - 1945, JaPo, 2004, authors Ales Janda and Thomas Poruba state that one 109 G-10/U4 produced by the Diana Works (delocalized WNF) in Czech territory, was kept long after the war in private ownership.

According to their publication, (Janda and Poruba 2004, 74), Bf 109 G-10/U4 W.Nr. 613029, probably produced in January 1945, and found at war's end at Milovice arifield, was brought by Mr. Sindelár to his car repair shop at Ceskýy Brod. The plane was exhibited in Uvaly near Praha and Ceský Brod in 1946 and remained at the latter location until... 1983! It was then sold to Hans Dittes who bought it to start his Bf 109 G-10 "Black 2" rebuild project.

Anyone here does know what hapened exactly to the then still complete W.Nr. 613029? Did this airframe largely survive in the current "Black 2" or was it only used for parts? Was it discarded after completion of "Black 2"?
Any hints would be greatly appreciated.

Marc

[Rasmussen]

IMHO the story with the Czech G - 10 is an old story told a long time from Mr. Dittes ... why? ... I believe it's more interesting than a normal rebuild from a Spanish "Buchon".

Fact is the fuselage of the "black 2" came from the Spanish HA.1112M-1-L, W.Nr. 213. The wings are Spanish too. The tail, the tail wheel, the bulges and the canopy were from Mr. Raimond Wagner and the engine is from Italy IIRC.

Best wishes
Rasmussen

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hi Rasmussen,

Thanks for your input. I can understand the fact for telling this story about "Black 2"; but what happened then to W.Nr. 613029? Any clues?

Thanks

Marc

[DaveM2]

Apparently scrapped early post war, a few parts remained and incorporated into Black 2.

Dave

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hi Dave,

There are contrasting infos there... Janda and Poruba 2004, page 75 do claim this plane was probabaly complete as late as in 1983, when allegedly moved with wings to Germany. And there are five pics they publish whcih are stated as taken in he '50s. Not very precise as a time frame, I agree.
Could you share your source of information? Thanks in advance

Marc

[harrison987]

Hey guys...

I know this is an old post...but a contact of mine has photos from Hans Dittes, that clearly shows this aircraft in the 1980's in CZ. It is is BAD condition, and located in a barn. Photos were taken in the 1980's. So there is truth to the story.

I also have a very old restoration photo of Black 2, and I can tell you 100%, that the werk number written on the coolant tank is NOT 613029, but rather 613024.

So JaPo's info is slightly off. I suspect the werk number was a guess, as the quality of the original photo makes the "4" looks like a "9".

I managed to purchase the complete tail wheel fork that was originally installed into 613024, and it is being used in a restoration.



Mike

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Thanks very much harrison987! Glad to know JaPo wasn't off mark on this issue, but only on the W.Nr. Amy chance to see some of the pics from the 80's?
And finally, what happened to the airframe after the 80's?

Cheers
Marc

[harrison987]

Hi!

As far as I know, after all data plates were removed, it was scrapped.

The condition was fairly bad.

I am not sure the mentality back then, but I know it was acquired "under the table". With communism being so close, and now owning a fascist aircraft, I think there was an underlying fear.

The same happened with an Me109K-4 that was found around the same time.

Most of the photos I have came from the estate Hans Herman Lohse who was the original owner of the FIRST FMBB. He restored it back to static after the crash. It now sits in the US, awaiting restoration to airworthy.

In his estate, were all of his restoration photos of FMBB, along with photos of Dittes' restoration. I suspect they worked closely together at that time.

I don't want to post pics right now, as I do not want them blasted all over the web. But I can tell you 100% that 613024 is clearly marked on the original coolant tank, before all tanks were blasted and re-painted to how they look low.

There are also some photos of an Me109 K-4 wreck (though just the cockpit section), as well as a compeltely restored Me109 K-4 tail gear leg. The note wrtten states it is from a K-4 that crashed at Altenhorst/Langenhagen on December 31, 1944. There is a werk# attributed, but it is too high for a K. Anyone have info on that one?

Mike

[John Manrho]

WNr. 491241 (a G-10) of 10./JG 300 crashed near Altenhorst that date (100% loss).

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Great informations, harrison987; many many thanks for them. Sad to think both I'd those machines scrapped so recently: add another ten years and Jim Pierce would have neatly extracted them...

And sorry, I'm out of home and can't help you about your 31 December 1944 query.

Cheers
Marc