Groupie Normandie on 17Oct44

[Courtois Laurent]

Originally Posted by Nokose

Groupe Normandie had six Yak-3's up on patrol at 14:00 (Moscow) in the area of Gumbinnen when they saw 40 bomb laden FW190's approaching the lines. They moved into position and attacked. The 18 GIAP also attacked this formation.
Sous Lt Roger Sauvage claimed 1 FW190 and 1 probable FW190
Lt Col. Pierre Pouyade FW190 Probable
Sous Lt Pierre Lorillon 2 FW190
Have no information on who the other three pilots.
18 GIAP
Kapt Nikolai Grigoyevich Pinchuk FW190
St.Lt. Vladimir Alexandrovich Balandin FW190
St. Lt. Grigorii Prokopyevich Repikhov FW190
Alexei A. Kalyuzhnyi FW190
Kapt Nikolai Nikitovich Danilenko FW190
Lt Nikolai Agalakov and Zakhariya Gogotoevich Margoev each chased a FW190 into the ground.
Which SG unit from the Luftwaffe was operating in this area and what were their losses?

Hello everyone.

Soviet reports give a different version than the one given in posterity:

Журнал боевых действий 303 иад
Описывает период с 01.10.1944 по 31.10.1944 г.

в 12.35 на прикритие наземных войск в районе шталлупенен по вызову с КП командира дивизии вылетело 8 Як-3 1 ОИАП "НОРМАНДИЯ". В ройоне патрулованни на высоте 150 метров летчик встретиля 12 фв-190, с которыми вступили в бой, в результате во здушного боя капитан КЮО сбил 2 фв-190, мл-лт МАРКИ,ДЕ-ШАНЕ, ДЕ-САНФАЛЬ, САВАЖ сбили по одому фв-190


"Combat log 303 iad. Describes the period from 10/01/1944 to 10/31/1944.

at 12.35 pm, 8 Yak-3 1 OIAP "NORMANDIA" flew out on a call from the command post of the division commander to cover ground troops in the shtallupenen area. In the swarm of patrols at an altitude of 150 meters, the pilot met 12 fv-190s, with which they entered the battle, as a result, in an aerial battle, the captain of the KYuO shot down 2 fv-190s, jr-lt MARKS, DE-CHANET, DE-SANFAL, SAVAGE were shot down one at a time fv-190 ".

This once again illustrates the narrative bias, the emphasis of the "Journal de marche" published in 1946. The editor was not objective and transformed the facts to create a "chanson de geste".

Soviet reports give 16 victories (13 FW-190 and 3 Me-109) for the Normandie-Niemen to date.

Only 12 will be validated after wars. That day -3.5 victories are canceled at CUFFAUT and - 0.5 at Sauvage who must share it with Cuffaut.
Two other pilots saw their victories go from certain for the Soviets to probable for the French, who subsequently credited Lorillion with 2 victories.

If indeed Captain CUFFAUT loses today 3 victories following his "internal trial" for "overcleaming". However, he should not be stigmatized, he is not the only one in this case. He is just the only one denounced by "Yves COURRIERE".

The overclaiming on October 16 and 17 is due to the fact that the majority of the NN pilots were inexperienced and for many it fell from their first fight. Many equated the evasive dive of a plane he had hit with total destruction.

The subject alone would deserve a post, dealing with the real level of reinforcement pilots, a real analysis of the activity of the NN for the year 1944. I will spoil it a bit: the year 1945 is the most interesting.