Luftwaffe rescue buoys

[Peter]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

Still, their purpose was to save Germans and not British.

There chivalry stopped already during WWI, and there was no chivalry at all during WWII.

Franek, that is a strong statement, but I guess you were there to experience it.

Peter

[Peter Spoden]

Hi Franek,
out of a book "The NJ War Diaries" by Dutch historians which will be published in 2008 in the UK:


"There were also chivalrous actions from aviators on both sides - English bombers whose target was obscured while on the bombing run did not always salvo their cargoes over an already blazing city indisciminately but sought out alternative targets, putting their own lives in heightened danger. Or German nightfighters who aimed for the wings of the bomber when opening fire, giving the RAF crews time to prepare to bale out."


my best wishes to you for 2008
Peter (NJG 5/6)

[ChrisS]

Hello Peter

There is also the amazing Georg-Peter Eder whose personal chivalry is illustrated here:

http://www.airartnw.com/notmyturn.htm

Regards and Happy New Year!

Chris

[Franek Grabowski]

Peter

Originally Posted by Peter Spoden

"There were also chivalrous actions from aviators on both sides - English bombers whose target was obscured while on the bombing run did not always salvo their cargoes over an already blazing city indisciminately but sought out alternative targets, putting their own lives in heightened danger.

The one may find such entries in documents but the reasoning had nothing to chivalry. If the target was ablaze it was a good reason to set fire elsewhere. Otherwise in the early period there were several problems with accuracy of attacks, crews being unable to find proper targets without navigation aids, or not willing to attack heavily defended cities. This resulted with confirming photographs being introduced. Then, if the target was obscured, photos would not show it and the mission will not be credited to the crew.

Or German nightfighters who aimed for the wings of the bomber when opening fire, giving the RAF crews time to prepare to bale out."

Explosion of fumes would not give much time to evacuate. Most of crews taking part in the Warsaw Airlift and shot down by fighters of NJG6 and NJG 101 did not survive.

Chris

There is also the amazing Georg-Peter Eder whose personal chivalry is illustrated here:

Eder was a hero of several such stories, but as far as I know, neither of them could have been confirmed. I recall reading that the story of Johnson's flight was a fake, just the same as the story of a ghost P-40.

Very best wishes to both of you

[ChrisS]

Aw Franek you've gone and ruined my Christmas now! I thought I'd found a 'nice Nazi'. Oh well...............

Happy New Year to you!

Chris

[Franek Grabowski]

Sorry, but you would not find a nice Nazi or Commie.
Certainly there were some decent people worth to remember, but their air force was not, and the air war was just a brute massacre.
Most of the stories originate from 1950s or 1960s and I would guess they were part of propaganda policy trying to explain why Western Germany was an ally of NATO. Here, we had stories of brave German anti-faschists fighting arm in arm with the Red Army. The truth is less chivalrous, more complicated but nonetheless still fascinating.

[Brian Bines]

Was not the incident when Eder was shot down and wounded in 1944 when he was giving Michal Gladych the chance to land his damaged P-47 on a Luftwaffe airfield true. As Gladych was in front in the landing pattern it was reported he opened fire causing the airfield Flak to open up hitting Eders Fw 190. Several reports state the incident was verified when Eder and Gladych met up post war and was an article in the RAF Flying Review magazine in the 1950's,

All the best for the New year,

Brian Bines

[Franek Grabowski]

One of the stories! Gładych could not have met Eder in the air, his famous combat over Vechta being on 8 March 1944.

[Brian Bines]

Thanks Franek, are there any known Luftwaffe losses which link to Gladych's claims for this incident,

Regards

Brian Bines

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

The one may find such entries in documents but the reasoning had nothing to chivalry.

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

There chivalry stopped already during WWI, and there was no chivalry at all during WWII.

And you know this how? As an historian you should know better than making sweeping statements such as this. Comments like this are poor history and degrading to the few combatants who did follow their heart and not their gut.